787: How to Build an Accessible & Inclusive Research Institute - with Dr. Tom Stewart, Executive VP & Executive Director of the Cause Research Institute, National University

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Welcome back everybody. It's your time to up on the EdUp Experience Podcast where we make education your business. Dr. Joe Sallustio here on another episode marching towards over 750 episodes, over 350,000 downloads here very, very soon. I hope to announce that on one of these podcasts. If everybody would just listen more often, we'd get there faster. I mean, that's the key, right? If you're listening, listen more. If you haven't listened, then you're probably not hearing me beg for you to listen. So that doesn't make much sense, but listen.

Listen to the EdUp Experience podcast. Why? Because you don't always have to hear me talk. I bring in very interesting people so I can be quiet and they can talk. But we've interviewed over 240, 250 college and university presidents from all across the world. Of course, you know what we did. We wrote a book called "Commencement: The Beginning of a New Era in Higher Education" that is based upon our first 125 presidents that we interviewed on this podcast and everything they had to say about the future of higher education.

We've sold thousands of copies. You could pick up your copy on Amazon. It's called "Commencement: The Beginning of a New Era in Higher Education." Of course, you'll be able to see us live. We do live podcasting for anybody that did not know. We will actually pack up a bag, a backpack to be more specific with microphones. And I lug them literally. There is little room for clothes. So usually I wear the same clothes day over day, but that's because I need the mics and I can't afford to bring more bags because I can only carry so many.

But we're gonna go to Doha, Qatar or Qatar depending on how you say it in the Middle East. Elvin Freitas, the co-founder of the EdUp Experience will be in Doha November 28 and 29 broadcasting and recording live from the Qatari Convention Center. I was supposed to go, but I'm going to the week after that I'm going to the Middle States Commission for Higher Education in Philadelphia. I have family in Philly so that works out for me. So this year I gotta pass up the trip to the Middle East. So you can catch us live. Why wouldn't you come live? There's a hot mic waiting for you to talk about the future of higher education. And now I'm gonna shut up. And I'm gonna bring in my guest co-host. He is here on a whim. He wasn't supposed to be here, but now he's here. But he's ready. Ladies and gentlemen, your guest co-host today, here he is. His name is Dr. Peter Holbrook. He is the provost and chief operating officer at Tiffin University. Peter, what is happening?

Dr. Peter Holbrook: It's a great day. It's a great day in Ohio and higher education is continuing to spin into a new reality. And as we continue to look at the future, it's all about keeping an eye towards innovation, as well as probably what we like to refer to as fishing in the pond in a number of different areas in order to figure out which one's going to be where it's going to bite. And so as we continue to do our work, we're always looking at forward strategic directions and trying to figure out which one of them is gonna be the one that will take us forward or all of them.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Perhaps all of them. Well, you know what? You can't be all things to all people. You got to find the right mix. It's about the right mix for the future, isn't it, Peter? You got to find the right mix of product, of people. And I think in my opinion, people have never been more important to higher education than they are right now. Why? Well, you have the entrance of AI. You have this thought that higher education might not be as valuable. One of the things that makes higher education valuable is the people that deliver it. And so people have never been more important. So we brought one of those people to you today. You like my transition? I just did that just now, by the way. Ladies and gentlemen, he's my guest today. He's your guest today. He's Dr. Tom Stewart. He is an executive vice president at National University and the executive director of the Cause Research Institute. Dr. Tom Stewart, how are you?

Dr. Tom Stewart: I'm wonderful. It's a pleasure to join the two of you today to have an exciting conversation about the future of higher ed.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: All right. So let's make the connection first. My connection to National University. I've interviewed the president there, Dr. Mark Milliron. I am a graduate, a doctoral graduate of North Central University, which is now a part of National University. So I guess I'm now an alum of the National University System. And therefore, I was excited to talk to you because, you know, it's kind of like my home, my educational home. You're doing some interesting work. So first of all, tell us, level set for us. Tell us a little bit about National University and tell us about the Cause Research Institute.

Dr. Tom Stewart: Yeah. And let's start with your original alma mater, North Central University. Up until about two years ago, National University was part of a system of four institutions and National University founded in 1971 as a nonprofit based in San Diego, California, was essentially the mothership. John F. Kennedy University joined the system followed by City University of Seattle and John F. Kennedy University is based in Northern California, City University of Seattle based in Seattle, Washington.

And then about three years ago, North Central entered the fold. Our board of trustees began to think about the future of higher ed pre-pandemic and certainly the pandemic, it's accelerated our thinking about the best way to position the system and its four affiliate institutions for long-term success. They came out of a planning process with the goal of merging both North Central University and John F. Kennedy into National University and City University remains an independent affiliate. So National works very closely with City University. And what we have now is what I would call a kind of a powerhouse institution where we now touch over 240,000 individual learners across 50 states and 20 countries around the world. We have 40,000, actually 45,000 students who are degree-seeking. And we offer degrees from associates to PhDs and with North Central in particular, now in the fold, we offer 23 terminal degree programs. And we conferred approximately 560 PhDs and EdDs in our last commencement alone, and will continue to graduate somewhere north of 500 students in the future.

We probably have one of the most comprehensive sets of both certificate and degree programs in the country. We are committed to serving what we call military, non-traditional, and working students. We started off as an institution that made military-related students either active duty or veterans, our core customer. And as we developed a line of products and services that really worked for them, particularly those who were deployed, we expanded them to non-traditional students. And we defined non-traditional as increasing numbers of 16-year-olds who are taking associate degrees or pursuing the associates degrees while in high school to those over 70 because of life expectancy and other advancements with health and technology. So we are expanding the non-traditional definition at both ends of the age spectrum and everything in between. And the vast majority of our students work.

We called them ANDERS. They are students and parents, students and caregivers, students and other responsibilities, in which case, in many cases, school is a second, third priority because these other commitments are equally, if not more important. And so we built a model that doesn't force our students to choose. They can do both. There's a lot more I can say about who we are.

But I will just answer your second question with a short description of what we now call the Cause Research Institute. And as many of your listeners may know, in the US, if you are an elite research-oriented institution, you have what's called from a Carnegie classification standpoint, an R1 or an R2 status. R1 means that you confer over 50 terminal degrees per year and you have over $50 million in research and development related expenditures. If you're in R2, roughly, you confer roughly 20 terminal degrees per year and you have over $5 million in research and development related expenditures.

And then there's a professional degree granting category just below R2. I believe Tiffin, our co-host, as well as National, have that professional designation. But since NCU has come into the fold, we meet all the requirements necessary to become potentially an R2 and eventually an R1. However, the Cause Research Institute is our commitment to becoming our national. And our national means that we're gonna keep our students, military, non-traditional working at the center of our efforts to make increased research, scholarship, and professional practice opportunities available to our unique students with a goal that it aligns with what we call whole human education. And we think research and scholarship is a way that our students, whether they're undergraduates or graduates, can apply the things that they learn in a classroom to tackle problems and challenges that they see in their communities, whether their communities are local or national, global in orientation. And so our tagline for the Cause Research Institute, as we challenge our students to think about having an impact, is "What's your X?" You know, what problem, what challenge would you like to provide a solution to, given your unique demographics, your unique position in the country or the world, and other characteristics that make you a person, particularly from a social justice standpoint, capable of making the world better.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Wow, thank you for that. That's a very comprehensive update. I like that. What's your X? And I'm going to pass over to Peter after I ask you this, but how hard do you find it? Let me ask. Let me start over. At what points do students engage with the Cause Research Institute? Do they have to be at the beginning of the program, midway through and is coming up with the X a part or embedded within the curriculum?

Dr. Tom Stewart: No, great, great question. So we apply that question to the Cause Research Institute as well on behalf of National University. And our commitment is raising research and scholarship possibilities for students starting with high school age. So the Cause Research Institute will partner with school districts and other stakeholders to raise the awareness of that population, particularly first generation, underrepresented students. And for us, it could be, you could be 16 or 70, right? As a first generation rising first time full time freshman. We have recently partnered with Phi Theta Kappa, which is the honor society for community colleges. So we are entering into an exclusive relationship with them to get the word out to community college students as they think about making the transition to four-year institutions, whether they come to National or Tiffin or someplace else. We like to play a role in just raising awareness and helping them to understand that there are variety of ways that they can express their talents and pursue career paths that they may not know are available to them. And then certainly at the graduate level, we encourage our students as lifelong learners, some may start with a certificate that stacks eventually into a PhD. We are building systems and strategies that help them to connect the dots along the way. So for a student, hypothetically, who enrolls in one of our certificate programs, their student advisors have conversations with them about how that certificate links to various associates and bachelor's degrees that we offer so that they can see a pathway beyond the certificate with the goal of making them more viable to the economy over the long term. Learning is always faster with the right tools.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Peter, over to you.

Dr. Peter Holbrook: Yes. So it sounds like as you're talking about the system, you're developing actually individuals who want to come to leadership to address issues or the X within their communities or things that they see that are emerging. So talk to us a little bit more about how you see this really allowing people to, number one, come to a realization of a need and or an X they want to solve and how their talents can come to that. But then how are they mobilized to do transformation and to solve real problems?

Dr. Tom Stewart: No, that's a great observation and question, which requires a little more background about the significance of the merger. NCU has been, was historically a graduate degree offering institution, serving students much like National, which is part of the reason National brought NCU into the fold of the system before we merged all of the institutions into National University. What National historically has been is a service-oriented institution. So almost every student with vast majority coming from the military leaving the military to join the ranks of the teachers. So National is the leading producer of certified teachers in the state of California, for example. We're one of the leading producers of social workers in the state of California and beyond. We have a significant number of our students who want to move into law enforcement and healthcare through the John F. Kennedy School of Law, which is now Law and Policy. A lot of our students want to move into the legal profession, particularly on the public service side. So what we are attempting to do from a whole human education standpoint is help our students to understand that, yes, your degree leads to an important entry-level position in many professions, but you should start thinking about management. You should start thinking about leadership. You should start thinking about entrepreneurship, other ways that you can take that credential in your experiences and pursue opportunities that you may not have fathomed. And so to your point, Peter, our goal is to give them as much exposure while they're students as possible through internships, through fellowships. And some of the internships and fellowships pair them with faculty so they can assist faculty on working on real-world research-related efforts. And then we have faculty who are more social entrepreneurs and traditional entrepreneurs from the business school. For us, research is a big component of it. But any way a student could apply their talents, their competencies, their skills and their passion to serve problems across any industry or sector is our goal at National.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Are you kidding me? No, I'm not.

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Dr. Joe Sallustio: So you started talking about R1s and R2s. Is the Cause Research Institute a conduit for moving the institution's classification? What's the end goal? How do you get there? What's that plan? What's that strategic plan look like?

Dr. Tom Stewart: Yeah, once again, great question. I mean, for us, it's really an organic play first and foremost. But as we assess the higher education landscape, we have identified R1, R2 status as a significant framework for understanding what we aspire to do. And we have gleaned some great ideas from leading research institutions that we think can complement what we're trying to do. But I think what most people should know is that the Carnegie classification recently has been assigned to the American Council of Education. And ACE is attempting to overhaul the traditional criteria for R1, R2 status. Surprise, incorporating more DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion into how we define institutions. So in addition to R1 and R2, we anticipate that ACE will create more opportunities for universities, particularly minority serving, Hispanic serving, historically black colleges and universities. And I attended one as an undergrad and an elite graduate institution Harvard on the other. So I've seen firsthand the potential of an HBCU that doesn't have that status and the power of an institution that has it but has not fully embraced how you make it available to students that come from a background and have a desire to do something with the credential different than the way that R1 in Harvard's case has traditionally positioned students. And in fact, no criticism to Harvard or the 146 other universities that carry the R1 status. But I would argue, and I think they would agree, that the current orientation of a lot of R1s is about faculty research and how faculty can parlay their research into generating more dollars to the university and raising the university's brand recognition.

We seek to create something that's both student and faculty centered and not one or the other. And that for us, we're pleased to know that ACE is going to potentially embrace that and recognize us for our unique status. So as our president likes to say, we think R1s and R2s are necessary. And so we don't seek to be better than them or to be different than them, we want to be better with, with the goal of providing students everywhere more options. And for those who would like to gravitate towards a traditional R1 or R2, we encourage them to do so. But we're defining the Cause Research Institute as part of our national. And that's a work in progress. But at the center of it will be military, nontraditional, and working students.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Yeah, you know, there's so much there. I want to, and Peter, I'll pass it to you again in a sec. But what you've said is just one of the, and I was going to ask you, of course, next, what about ACE and their coming classification? So thank you for handling that right away. But Harvard, as an example, may not be set up nor want to do what you explained. Right? There comes a point when your brand is your brand and you've decided to serve a certain population and that's who you serve and to extend yourself beyond may not be why you were engineered in the first place. And so how do you bring that research focus to students and that you said students and faculty, not faculty and students. And that was an, I thought that was important the way you said that. How do you bring it to students in a way that gets you that same level of, I don't know, impact and not keep it so segmented to faculty and elitism, but how do you bring it to the masses, to anybody that wants to be part of this research that has a good idea? An incubator, right? That is one of the big secrets and challenges of higher education today, is how do we take this benefit of higher ed and expand it to those that don't have it? And I think National, and I know National University is better built to do that than a Harvard or others going the other direction. And so I'm glad to hear you talk about that. And Peter, I'll hand it over to you.

Dr. Peter Holbrook: So as I've been listening and thinking through the approach of where you're doing your research and the cause that you're putting it into, but the whole area of diversity, inclusion, and equity is a pretty hot button area within higher education and in our nation today and lots of thoughts around that. How are you dealing with the potential pushback blowback around these topics and then making it a hallmark of the research that you're working towards as part of your whole framework?

Dr. Tom Stewart: That's a great thing to highlight, which is the controversy associated with work that's focused on diversity, equity and inclusion. And as I mentioned, we call it social justice, equity, diversity, inclusion as JEDI, because we believe that social justice is the end game. DEI or EDI is the means by which we get there. And so we believe that there's a variety of social justice issues. And for most people, the controversy assumes that we're talking about race and ethnicity or gender. But for us, it's much broader than that. It's access. So we're an open access institution, first and foremost, as mentioned. We built models and, Joe, you may remember in your experiences at NCU, it's called a one-to-one model, graduate level. So just to give you a couple of examples of things that we do at National that are pretty cutting edge. We give our students the opportunity to have a one-on-one experience or a cohort experience. What the one-on-one experience looks like is that a student can be assigned a faculty member who is a subject matter expert in the course that they're taking. And this is particularly valuable for terminal degree pursuers and that's the option they often choose.

On the other hand, some students would like to have a learning experience with their peers. And we are for both. But in our model, students only take one class at a time. Because what we know, if you are a full-time worker, you have other demanding obligations, the notion, and we all came out of this model taking four or five classes in a 14 to 16 week term with the last two weeks being focused on papers and exams in which we typically have to go into hibernation in order to get the work done. It's a very stressful period. We don't question that. We just assume that that's the price you have to pay as an undergraduate or graduate to earn the degree from the institution that you're attending. And we don't think that's necessary.

So our students tend to be more successful with an ability to focus on one class at a time. And if they have to, for whatever reason, suspend the class or drop the class and take it during the next cycle. And we start our classes at the beginning of every month. So they only have to wait a full term or semester. So if you have to stop out, typically it's for a few weeks before you get started again. You often don't lose any money. And the time loss is pretty modest versus you got to drop a bunch of courses from the traditional model. So, I mean, that's just one example of what we've done historically. And your point about, you know, traditional institutions versus kind of the R1 model that we want to build. If you're a graduate student and you're attending R1 or R2, typically you have to uproot from wherever you live and be in residence for some period of time, focus on issues or concerns that may be of interest to the faculty or to the immediate community where that university is based. A lot of students who come out of those experiences don't gain the kind of knowledge, expertise and insights, et cetera, necessary to go back home where they came from and instantly have some impact. Some never make it back. And to some extent, that was a challenge for me. And I did my PhD in early 90s. And so with our model, our students are typically studying where they live. We are challenging them to look around their immediate environment to identify ways to apply the things that they're learning to challenges and problems of interest to their community and to pursue it and use their learning experience as almost a laboratory for preparing themselves for professionals once they secure their undergraduate or their graduate degrees.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Tell it like it is. A lot about what you said, right? I'm just thinking back. When I started at North Central University, I had one kid. I was working in higher education, of course, I'm a chief experience officer at Lindenwood University now. Back then I was a VP of enrollment and marketing at a for-profit institution called National American University. It's based out of South Dakota. So I was traveling which at that time National American had 42 campuses across the US. So I was traveling about 50% of the time. So there was zero chance and I mean zero chance that I could go somewhere, do a residency, really attend to anything. And I mean zero chance because I was, in fact, this much. Zero point zero. So I had to do everything online. And I was able to use my work context for research. And I was able to apply that research to my work context.

I'm circling back around to a thing that you said and I think this is important because it's a foundation I believe of what the Cause Research Institute is doing but you said open access institution. There are those within higher education and you know who you are out there that goes "That means you let in anybody and they're you know the people that aren't academically prepared and they're all gonna drop out and you have horrible retention. We don't accept. We only accept people that are going to be successful." What do you say to that, Tom?

Dr. Tom Stewart: Yeah, I mean, I can tell you from my own experiences. I was a horrible high school student. You know, barely made it out of high school and what my teachers in the public school system in Washington, D.C. didn't know is that I was living in a very unstable home. You know, love my parents, but they were young parents struggling financially, neither of them had high school diplomas. They had four children and I was one of four of them. So we didn't get the reinforcement from parents who had high school diplomas, let alone a college education. So I, immediately after high school, I enrolled in the US Army in 1980. And the US Army experience, which lasted three years before I decided to go back to school, taught me how to learn. And I realized learning is something that you learn to do. You're not born as a learner. And I think implicit in what you just said is that some people are gifted with the ability to learn and some aren't. And I think once we realize that everyone can learn, and especially if surrounded with the right resources and people, you can thrive. And not every model is built for every person. So I would say to the individual learner, you have to understand your learning style, things that excite you in terms of subject matter, the kinds of teachers and coaches that motivate you. You've got to own understanding who you are. And then you have to look, and there's over 4,000 university options, if we're talking about higher ed that are out there. And I guarantee you there's some small number of them that are a really good fit for you. So National doesn't seek to build a panacea. You know, we know that there is a group of students that are unique to us. And we like to think that they're trying to some extent before they are fully buying who we are. And there's no loss in taking a course or two from us and realizing that no, this is not the good fit, but the vast majority of students who come to us really like the model because we do a lot on the front end to encourage them to do that self-assessment before they enroll. So we're proud to be an open access university available to students who are motivated, who are committed to learning, and who are prepared to do the work. And there's no way you can learn without putting in the work. So if you're prepared to do the work, the sky's the limit, regardless of who you are. And despite anything, you may have been socialized to believe about your potential, especially for subjects like science, technology, engineering, and math. A lot of women and students of color are told, you could be X, Y, and Z, but you can't be this. So there is cracking higher ed in general, and then there's the more precise cracking certain disciplines, especially if you've got a passion to pursue something. If it's on your heart and you're prepared to put in the work, you can do it.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: I love what you said. I love what you said, and thanks for your service to the US. Thank you. Peter, last question for you, my friend, before we get to our final two.

Dr. Peter Holbrook: All right, the last question is really you're looking at defining access beyond just limiting it to talking about a person's ability or capacity to learn. And you're looking at access as a swath, if you will, that can include wherever a person is at in their life and then opening up the doors of opportunity to them that may not be always available to them. And so how does this wrap into then your mission within the CAUSE aspect that you're doing for your research?

Dr. Tom Stewart: Yeah, I think the CAUSE Research Institute is part of a broader strategic plan and mission that we are focused on at National University, which includes a commitment to lifelong learning or learning lifelong. And the way you phrase those words, I would argue has a different set of connotations and we mean both.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: I like it.

Dr. Tom Stewart: And we are committed to understanding a couple of things. Michelle Weise wrote a wonderful book, "Long Life Learning," and it just talks about with advances in technology and health, you know, people will be living longer, therefore they will be learning longer because they need to learn longer to remain viable in the workforce. So we're starting to think about longevity and how do we help people over 50 and 60 perhaps pursue their second career, right? Or extend their current career or whatever they might do. And so that's something as an institution, we're looking at really closely. We're also just started reading a book called "The Perennials" and they argued much like Michelle because we are increasing life, not only from an age standpoint, but a health standpoint. I mean, people in their 80s and 90s will be able to do the things that they did in their 50s and 60s with some of the advances. And so what that means, particularly in higher ed, they argue is that we will soon have eight generations of individuals, either as students and or faculty as part of our organizational mission. And so as much as we're talking about a whole human education commitment to students, we as an institution are also committed to our employees. We encourage them to model lifelong learning and learning lifelong. And so they are adding their personal commitments to the DNA of who we are as an institution. So it's not like we say we do that for our customers. No, we do that for all of our constituents, whether they're current learners, employees, or alumni like Joe.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Well, I love it. I want to give you an opportunity, Tom. We've got two final questions we ask every single guest. The first one is the open mic moment. What else do you want to say about the Cause Research Institute or National University? Whatever you want to say, take a couple of minutes, lay it on us.

Dr. Tom Stewart: Now, I'll just say on a personal level, I didn't think I would be affiliated with an institution that kind of takes me full circle. And as I alluded to earlier, I was an average student at best coming out of high school, first generation to go to college if I chose to, which I did not initially. And once I made up my mind, you know with some maturity, so I came back to school at about 22, it made a big difference. And I have to say to anyone out there personally, or if you have a family member, you know, learning lifelong is real. And especially if you can help unlock what their passion is. And I am surrounded at National, led by a leader, Dr. Mark Milliron and the leadership team, all the way down to our entry level employees who are fully committed. We have about 3,000 faculty and total employee base of about 4,000 individuals located all across the country and around the world. And we look forward to collaborating with other organizations out there who share our commitment to non-traditional military and working students.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Well said. Last one, crystal ball moment here, Tom, tell us what you see for the future of higher education.

Dr. Tom Stewart: I think, and Peter suggested this at the start, I think technology, innovation is boundless. And I think those institutions that are flexible and nimble enough, often faculty kind of bureaucratic historical commitments to a certain model could inhibit an institution's ability to evolve and to transform itself into something that can remain student-centered. I like to think that that's a challenge we all face. National is no different than others. We're trying to build a change model that brings all of our employees along with us in a way that's reasonable and healthy. And I think those institutions that can do it most efficiently and effectively will be best positioned for sustainability.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Agreed. Well, Peter, this is your first time co-hosting. What did you think of this conversation?

Dr. Peter Holbrook: I thought it was a number one illuminating conversation. It was great to again, continue to meet people and hear people who are really trying to change the face of education, but by doing it differently. And so that's innovation. I love it.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Ladies and gentlemen, he's my guest co-host today. I would say he did a pretty bang up job for his first time on the mic. Ladies and gentlemen, here he is. His name is Dr. Peter Holbrook. He's provost and CEO at Tiffin University. Peter, anything else you want to say about Tiffin before we let you go?

Dr. Peter Holbrook: Tiffin's just this great institution in Tiffin, Ohio, in which we are really working to transform the lives of students. But we're really working at helping them make the connection between their profession and knowledge and the skill with that. And then also really working to help them understand what do they have to do to continually learn in order to be successful in their world today.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: You know, if we're going to change the narrative in higher ed and bring back the point that higher education has value to those that question and it takes all of us. So I appreciate you guys both coming on and great colleagues to have here. Of course, today my guest, he's your guest. He is the one and only Dr. Tom Stewart. He's the executive vice president of National University and executive director of the Cause Research Institute at National University. Tom, what did you think of the podcast today? You have a good time?

Dr. Tom Stewart: Yes, no, you all did a wonderful job. It was thought provoking. I appreciate an opportunity to share who we are and what we're up to and for those who are interested in learning more about us and potentially partnering with us. My email is tsteward, s-t-e-w-a-r-t-1 at nu.edu. Look forward to hearing from you. And it's just a pleasure to spend this beautiful fall afternoon with you all.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Tom also loves emails between the hours of 12 a.m. and 6 a.m. So make sure you get it right. No, no, no, don't do that to him. Ladies and gents, this has been an incredible episode and you know what you have done. You've just ed-upped.