804: EdUp Tribal Colleges & Universities (TCUs) Mini Series - w/ Dr. Helen Zaikina-Montgomery, President, Leech Lake Tribal College, & Anna Sheppard, President, White Earth Tribal & Community College

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Welcome back everybody. It's your time to up on the EdUp Experience podcast where we make education your business. What an honor it is to be here today. Hopefully you won't hear me talking very much because I'll tell you why even though I do talk a lot. But anyway, that's a story for another podcast. We are here today and it's a very, very important day. We have Erica Moore with us. Dr. Erica Moore and I'm gonna give her the whole sound effect clap in a minute.

Dr. Moore, if anybody doesn't know, she is the Vice President for Indigenous Institutional Transformation at the American Indian Higher Education Consortium. And she works with today's tribal colleges and universities. Dr. Erica Moore has been a guest and a guest co-host now. We said, Erica, who's interviewing all these amazing tribal college and university presidents? And she said, like, nobody is. I said, well, why don't you do it? 

We're just here today to have another episode in what we are considering a mini-series within the EdUp Experience podcast, interviewing today's tribal college and university presidents. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the microphone, Dr. Erica Moore. Erica, welcome back. That intro was long and had absolutely no direction. But here we are. We got to the point, which is...

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Tai Gui, good day everyone. Thank you for the introduction, Joe. Thank you for inviting us back and I'm looking forward to the discussion. 

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Tell me honestly how much convincing did it take to get you to host your own mini-series about TCUs? Because you're kind of like me? But you know, you're so good on the microphone.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Well, you're still on the episode so it should tell you that I'm having a very difficult time hosting by myself. So I'm going to have to emotionally prepare. I'm feeling with the guests that you brought today that you're going to be just fine. Sounds like we're going to have a little bit of fun along the way. If you could hear the pre-recording, you would know why I say that. But I think things will go smooth today. I'm going to bring them to the microphone now so they have enough time and enough space to get out all the great work that they're doing.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, see how we can make these mistakes and keep rolling. Welcome first to the microphone. Her name is President Dr. Helen Montgomery or President Montgomery or Dr. Helen Montgomery. And she's a president at Leech Lake Tribal College in Minnesota. Helen, how are you?

Dr. Helen Zaikina-Montgomery: Good. How are you, everyone? And thanks for having me.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: That was like three introductions in one because I was unsure how to get your title in the right order. So I just gave you all three. That's perfect. President, doctor, Helen, Mrs. I'm gonna go back and listen. I'm gonna go, my God, you're such an idiot, Joe, but that's okay. And President Anna Shepard from White Earth Tribal Community College, also in Minnesota. Anna, welcome to an EdUp Microphone. How are you?

Anna Sheppard: Bonjour, I'm good. And I'm excited to have this conversation today. So thank you for this platform to share our experiences.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Well, that's exactly what this is, a platform. Erica, it's my time to get out of the way. So I'm going to hand this over to you to have an amazing conversation with these two great presidents.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Thanks, Joe. You know, as Joe mentioned, if you listen to the pre-recording, we have a lot of discussions. Unfortunately, we can't air most of them. So it is also why I chose to reach out to President Shepard and President Montgomery. We have great storytelling and laughs when we are together. They're just amazing women doing great work. And the first episode, I had two presidents that had been long-term serving presidents. They have been in the work, the tribal college movement for decades. And so I thought it would be interesting to have like the parallel, presidents that have been serving less than 10 years or at least around that area and talk about, or just kind of see what those differences for you are when you look at what the next circle of the tribal college movement will be from fresh eyes. I'll go with President Shepard first.

Anna Sheppard: So thank you. Yes, so I serve as the president up at White Earth Tribal Community College. It's located in Mahnomen, Minnesota. I've been president for a little over two years, about six months I was interim. And then I was selected for the presidency in July of 2022. So yeah, it's been a definite learning experience, but a fun one. And so, you know, the team is ready, they have my vision, the president's cabinet supports me. And so we just move quickly and forward. So we're excited with all the possible changes. 

One of the things that is a huge push for us is we want to get our AA 100% online. And so that's going to be a huge one. And so plus we have our great big HLC accreditation happening here this upcoming fall. We're going to try to juggle all that together. So yeah, and we have some other things that we're working on to working with our LEAs and getting college in the high school, you know, even though we know the concurrent enrollment, but if I say college in high school, everyone knows what I'm talking about. 

So we're excited, we're possibly going to get two LEAs involved with that one. We already have a lot of students coming in with PSEOs. And so now that we're exploring that concurrent enrollment, we actually have a couple of schools who are reaching out to us and wanting to have that initial conversation to see what we can do and have that option. And then vice versa, you know, once we get to 100% online, we can look at maybe doing some distance education for some of those courses that wouldn't have the full, you know, 20 plus students that we could partner these LEAs to work together. And so, because we know out in rural Minnesota, you know, classes tend to be smaller. We're a small institution ourselves. Right now our enrollment is 130 students. So we're having a little bit of an incline. And so we do anticipate once we get to that 100% online that will help us. 

And so right now too, we're part of the pilot program. I believe all Minnesota TCUs and what they're doing is working with local high schools and they have a list of institutions that they can look at for college and they can select who they're interested. And so the last time we ran it, we had over 200 students who showed interest. But once they come out to us, yeah, so once they find out, you know, that they are excited, but housing is an issue for us. And so, you know, that goes from students to faculty staff. And so it's just, you know, it's just one of those things. And so we tend to be more of a commuter campus. Last time I ran that about 70% are coming from one town or more away. And out of that 70%, half is coming 30 plus miles away. And students mimic the same thing. 

Even our reservation, we're located in White Earth. We are the largest reservation in Minnesota. So just to go from our village in Mahnomen over to Pine Point in Ponsford, it's gonna take you about an hour and a half. And we know it's not good roads right now. So, gonna take you a little bit longer to do that. So yeah, so that's just it in a nutshell. And I know you'll probably wanna answer more questions. And so, yeah.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I have so many, but first I wanna make sure to let you know that you should reach out to my team with AIHEC to support you through your audit or review with accreditation. We can support.

Anna Sheppard: Awesome, because yet we definitely are doing that. So Helen has offered also or I should say President Montgomery, sorry, to help us out too. So we're excited about that one. I'm just so used to not this formal title because we always call each other. She came on a few months before me. And so the nice thing about that is I was able to reach out to her and she originally, you know, really helped me along and you know, and just had questions that I could balance. And even still to this day, I'll randomly text her, call her, and she'll give me some sound advice. So I appreciate that.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I love that. I think we do not mind if you refer to each other as Anna and Helen. I think that brings up a really important discussion as new presidents or newer TCUs, like younger TCUs in the tribal college movement. How do you find that support? And this can be for either one of you. How do you find that support within your communities with the AIHEC board, your fellow presidents? Or do you feel like that's an area that even AIHEC and the TCUs can help improve to be better mentors and relatives to one another? And anyone can answer.

Anna Sheppard: Yeah, well, and I kind of alluded to this already, when I came on is I knew I definitely needed, you know, my contacts, my peers. And so we have set it up right now. We do monthly meetings where we just meet online via Zoom. And, you know, it's just the Minnesota TCU presidents. We have one that's usually a little bit busy. So he's hit and miss. But it's just a nice time where there's no agenda, just to come on, one to support each other, see where we're at, maybe someone has something that they want to share, really positive news or bounce an idea off us. And so I really appreciate that. 

And so it's nice. And vice versa, if I have questions, I definitely reach out to AIHEC. And they definitely give me that response back, vice versa. Maybe they put it out to all the 34 TCUs across the nation and we'll get that information back. So that's kind of nice to have our peers, but then, but I also like that, you know, in Minnesota, you know, it's going to be more relevant to us. And so, yeah. And so we'll talk a little bit more about a United Front myself, President Montgomery and President King did with the Minnesota legislature last session. So, and that was huge. And so I'm excited about that, but I'll bounce it to President Montgomery if she wants to chime in on this.

Dr. Helen Zaikina-Montgomery: Yeah. So I forgot what the original question was. I was just busy being envious of all the accomplishments that Anna has made in her college. And, but, really I think that, you know, it's really important and I don't know who will be listening to this podcast, but I hope that, you know, women listen to this podcast and young women listen to this podcast. And it's really important to address all of this intersectionality here that we have going on. And I am married to a social worker, so I use the term intersectionality a lot. 

But really, you know, we're talking about female leaders in spaces where females are frankly not as listened to, not as considered, not as viewed as authority figures. In fact, you know, we just had a meeting yesterday with a vendor and it was me and two of my leadership staff and both were male. And so when they came into a room, they assumed that one of them was the president. And, you know, I felt like I needed to like, say something or do something to be more presidential.

Where I'm going with this is, you know, Anna and I and all, really all TCU presidents, we are isolated from our colleagues. There are not, you know, there isn't a tribal college right next door. There are colleges and universities right next door. And many of them also are rural and also have, you know, smaller budgets or smaller enrollments, but they're not tribal colleges. They have slightly different or sometimes completely different challenges and completely different budgets and completely different capacity issues. 

And so I think one of the very important things I think that AIHEC can do and the very important things that women can do for themselves and each other is support each other in leadership spaces. And so that's been my promise to myself. You know, when I, at some point I realized I'm going to be in leadership roles. Like I've reached a time in my life where I'm just gonna be in leadership roles now. And this is what I apparently I do. I was just studying to be a quiet little researcher. I didn't ever plan on this, but here it is. 

And so when I first came into my role, my situation was similar to Anna's. I started in May of 2021 as interim president. I didn't really plan to become the president of the college. Eventually I became the president of the college after a little bit less than a year. So I've been in this position for what about two and a half, three years or so. And so I reached out to Stephanie Hammitt who passed away and it has been invaluable to me who was the president of Fond du Lac Tribal and Community College. And I remember I reached out to her in a complete freak out because I didn't really understand our budget, you know, and it's not that I don't understand budgets. I do like money and I like, you know, even looking at my checkbook and balancing it, but I didn't, you know, a $4 million budget. I didn't, you know, I was just so scared. And so she walked me through it. She took the hour or whatever it took out of her life. 

And so again, when Anna reached out to me in a similar situation, not about budgets, Anna's great with budgets by the way. But you know, about something I knew that, you know, I have to support this woman in a leadership position because I know what it feels like. So I really hope that, you know, even if one or two people hear this, you know, the message that I have for women in leadership is we have to support each other in these spaces. We cannot tear each other down. We cannot present not a united front. We have to support each other in these leadership spaces. And I'm not downplaying the role of men in leadership. I've had wonderful male mentors, but I think that female leaders understand the daunting feeling of walking as a leader into a male space. 

And I think that, you know, being the leader of a tribal college and being so remote and so isolated from colleagues and people, peers essentially is difficult. And so, and I'm hoping that AIHEC will also develop, and I know AIHEC does have, and also will continue to develop more support mechanisms for presidents in general, for new presidents, because tribal colleges tend to have a little bit of a higher uptick in leadership rollover, but also for specifically for female presidents as well. So that's kind of my hope, you know, as we move into the future and I move into my role. And, you know, I know we're gonna talk, probably gonna touch on kind of the next iteration of AIHEC and so I thought I'd put that out there.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Yeah, that was excellent. I think, well, you brought up many important things, but I think one thing that you said, it doesn't mean that we don't value our male counterparts or colleagues, right? I don't think it has to be either or, but I think it is really important. We understand the historical context. We know that statistically speaking, tribal governments, typically male dominated boards, over our colleges are often male dominated. The states and the federal governments that we have to work with are often male dominated. 

It sounds President Montgomery and President Shepard as brand new presidents, you have not only experienced just sort of that like lateral oppression that a woman would feel in the higher education systems, but there's also this uniqueness to tribal colleges that you also will have to work with a tribal government, a state government, and a federal government. And so on top of the intersectionality of gender, how do you feel that your engagement or relationships with the tribal and state have played into your successes within your communities or at your tribal colleges? And AIHEC focuses on federal. So I wanted to kind of get your perspective, especially coming from Minnesota, there's so many things, so many changes going on within the higher education system in Minnesota. So any perspective you have on working with a tribal government that charters your institutions and or the state that impact your day-to-day.

Anna Sheppard: Yeah, well, I can start this one. So with the tribal government, we do definitely have our charter set up with them, you know, that they've agreed to, you know, be our governing body for us. And so they also do help us, you know, every year by giving us an allocation. And so which is awesome. So that definitely helps, you know, pay for a lot of the benefits that we have for our staff members, you know, which is huge because if you look at our counterparts, especially where I'm located, if you go 35 to 60 miles away, they're getting paid a heck of a lot more, you know, versus, you know, even our adjuncts, you know, that was something that we had to talk about recently, you know, we didn't have it budgeted, but we knew we had to up that because we knew that we were competing with some of those even though they live in our community, they're willing to travel to go to them. 

So that's always, you know, kind of, you know, hard. And so when you look at our charter, it says that, you know, that we will meet with them yearly, but we actually meet more often, we do quarterly. And so we can go to their tribal council meeting and present, or we can do a written report. And so, you know, usually a written report works the best for me, because one, you can be concise. And then, you know, I, cause it's, very busy, you know, working at tribal community college, you know, it's just like a community college. We wear many, many hats. And so for me to take almost a full day, it's really hard because I get behind. And so that's why I like to do that report, but there's sometimes where you have to, cause like you, whether you're going to present, you know, like I went to them to ask for funding. We didn't get it, but I did present to get our trades building. 

So that's something that we continue to do because if you look at our survey data, that is something that is much needed in our community and vice versa on our reservation. And then going to the state, this is really an awesome historical time that we just experienced. So like I alluded earlier, myself, President Montgomery and President King, so from White Earth Tribal Community College, Leech Lake Tribal College, and then Red Lake Nation College. We work together to work with our legislative body to get us on the Minnesota higher education budget. So starting this year, we are each getting $1 million from the state. And that's gonna go forward. And so, yeah, so we're super excited about that one. We're still working on the budget.

This last year was a perfect year for Minnesota was a trifecta. We had, you know, democratic house, democratic Senate and democratic, you know, governor's office. And so a lot of things went down the pipeline. And my understanding is there's over 3000 bills that were passed. And so they're a little bit swamped. And so, so we just got notice, I think it was in October, November, you know, it was supposed to be started implemented July, but we just got the initial contract. So that's something that, you know, we're reviewing and vice versa, you know, developing our budget, you know, what we want to do with this. 

And so for us, we're going to definitely bring in some much needed positions that we do need to get out there. And then some of our positions that aren't full time, we're going to be moving to a full time status. So there are some definite things that I'm excited about. And so for us, you know, you know, it's just learning how to navigate and, you know, report what they need and just continue to have those really positive relationships. 

And so for myself, I've worked in other roles where I've had to do that same thing. You know, used to be a fifth and sixth grade teacher at a Minnesota institution, but it was also a special language, but they're also working with the tribal government. So it's kind of an interesting mix. And so I've had every job I've been in, you've had to have some kind of interesting mix balancing act. So for me, this is just a natural fit. So yeah, I am excited about that. So yeah, so that's how I work with them.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I love that you all worked together on that, the tribal colleges within that state. And President Montgomery, you can answer this too. Are there... Is there a message that you would like, you know, the land grant institution in Minnesota, the university systems within Minnesota, the state legislation, the tribal governments, is there a message you want them to know? What they could provide more of or even a way to be a better relative in the work that we're all doing? It sounds like they're on their way or you are working with them to get them on their way to be good relatives to the tribal colleges. But is there anything that you would like to just get out there for them to hear while you have the platform? And President Montgomery, can go.

Dr. Helen Zaikina-Montgomery: Yeah, sure. I do want to say that, first of all, I appreciate my tribal college presidents. We did work together and we were successful. I also appreciate all of the legislators at the state of Minnesota legislature who helped us and heard, you know, kind of amplified our voices, you know, listened to our needs, listened to us, listened to our students. We did take students with us to testify for two years in a row, you know, to the capital. So I do appreciate that. But the message that I'd like to, you know, to get out there is you know, we need the support and we need people to understand that tribal colleges are, you know, accredited by the same accrediting agencies as real colleges, as sometimes people, you know, refer to them as if we're not real colleges, we're just pretend colleges, you know? 

And I want to, you know, I want to, you know, for our states, especially those states, and I'm not just talking about the state of Minnesota because I know, and I hear from tribal college presidents from other states that this is the case. So for states that have tribal colleges or have large numbers of tribal colleges like we do, and other states have even more tribal colleges, to really, you know, implement education about tribes, tribal laws, tribal sovereignty and tribal colleges into their whatever educational curriculum they have. And I'm talking about from legislative levels all the way down to county office levels. 

I think that I've been, all of us, I don't think I've been shocked. I just take it as a given now because I know about it, but people who are new to the state, sometimes are shocked about the fact that, you know, sometimes our county workers don't know basic rules and laws and facts about tribes. And yes, I understand that we're governments and we have more of a government to government relationship with the federal government. Of course, I understand that I'm a tribal college president, but we still are located within a reservation that is located partially within a county or multiple counties. 

And so, you know, I think it's really important for people. I think education, right, or illuminative education, I guess, is so important. And we're talking about human services. We're talking about, you know, K-12. We're talking about higher ed, you know, in all of those spaces. And so if I had a message to non-tribal entities, my message would be, please come to us and let us help you educate yourselves about Native American tribes on any component that you would like. Or please get somebody to educate you about, you know, things like sovereignty and laws and regulations that are concerning our people.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Absolutely. I you unmuted.

Anna Sheppard: No, I totally agree with where she's coming from because, you know, one of the things that I really appreciate about, you know, TCUs, tribal colleges and universities is that we embed our culture and language right into our AA program. That is because that is our highest degree at our institution. And so one of the things, you know, that I've done is not only reached out to my peers in the TCU realm, but also my peers in other institutions. And so I have them also on standby so I can contact them. 

But yeah, so I'm actually gonna be meeting with a chancellor here. I think it's next month for Minnesota State University Systems, which is huge because they have 32 universities and community colleges across the state. So I'm excited about that. You know, we also have a really good relationship, you know, with a higher level at the student services level. So we're looking at articulation agreements. We also have been reached out across the border. So North Dakota State University is actually bringing in some staff members, deans to come tour our college and see what we can do, maybe partner on some research, you know, grants. 

We have another private institution. They're on their second president since I've been there because one just retired and the new one came on. So both of them have been at my institution, but that's from Concordia College too in Moorhead. But they're really big on supporting their alma maters. And so that is my institution where I went to. So that's really nice. And so one of the things that we're exploring and then possibly exploring also with another TCU, which would be President Montgomery's, because we just don't have the numbers to have a TRIO standalone program. And so we're looking at partnering with another TCU, but also partnering with another institution where they can do all the PI work and the reporting and delegation. We can just receive the nice benefits of it. So, cause yeah, I've worked in TRIO world and I find so many positive things, especially when my students are looking at going on and getting their bachelor's or higher. I'll look at where they're going to school and if they have a TRIO program, hook them up so that way they continue to get those services. 

You know, there are just so many good things, but yeah, so, you know, definitely, you know, just make sure that you're working. So one of the things I'm excited about too in Minnesota, they just passed it. Now it's all teachers that are licensed in K-12, they must have a diversity element to their licensure. And so I think that's where we can come in as a TCU, because I know I've been preaching this to my cabinet. This is our niche. Who's better to teach that than us? And then we can get that information out there. 

And then fast forward, I think it's into 25, 26. The school districts, starting with K through 12, has a requirement their students must also have a diversity element before they graduate. So again, you know, the conversations I'm already having with LEAs, I'm already telling them that, hey, this is coming down the pipeline. You know, we're willing to work with you. We got this college in the high school. You're going to have to meet all these elements. We're going to be set ready. We're going to be set to go on that. So yeah, so like I said, I'm telling the cabinet, these are coming down the pipelines. We have to watch both these. 

And so I do think the state is really trying to make it better, but going back to even the curriculum, some of the things that they just have to teach is continue to do what they're doing, but also embed the indigenous culture in there. And I know a lot of schools will acknowledge that they're on indigenous land, but we need to do more than just that. We need to make sure that people are taught. Like myself, I learned about boarding schools, different things. But I know some of my friends who are indigenous didn't know about that because it wasn't taught in the K-12 system. And so when I worked in Head Start, I made a point to get that material, so books that were age appropriate, so we could start to introduce that history, because we need to know our history so we don't continue to make those same mistakes that happened in previous generations and to recognize if something does happen like that, we can stop it and make better choices.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I love both your responses. I think what happened here is that we created this theme of education on this education podcast, right? Like how are we educating ourselves, our state, our communities? I think President Montgomery hit on something really, really important. The amount of individuals within a state that have five or more tribes and they do not know where they are, who they are, or never stepped foot within that territory is shocking to me. And we've had so many individuals across this work ask, can we come? Almost if there's gonna be a gate right up at the tribe and you try to walk in and we won't let you in. And I think that goes back to what President Montgomery saying, like, what are we doing to educate folks? And what are our partners in this work doing to educate themselves and other folks so that we aren't the ones burdened with the responsibility to educate everyone else on how to engage appropriately or ethically with our communities. So I'm glad that you brought this back to the educational piece.

I then like how President Shepard, you focused on the successes you're having within this state, which can really, really highlight how other states could emulate this work and being responsive with tribal communities. But you also mentioned students. I'm gonna pivot really quickly. We focused on sort of the institutional level of what you are all experiencing as presidents and some of the obstacles, I wanted to give you time before the end of the podcast to share out the positive. Like what is going on on your campus that's just really exciting that you want someone to know or a student and their work that you want to highlight or something that you've just accomplished and you want the world to know about your students.

Dr. Helen Zaikina-Montgomery: I can take this first and then I know Anna will have things. I think that, you know, I wanna, maybe I'll just do a high level statement and let Anna do the actual real meat of the matter, right? Stuff that she's been talking about. But honestly, I think that, you know, I was thinking as we were talking, I was thinking about, you know, tribal colleges and what our jobs are. And it's so, I think people don't realize, and this goes back to me saying like, sometimes people are like, well, these are real colleges and these are tribal colleges. And I don't think people realize that the work that we do is so much more than a real college or non-tribal college does, right?

The work that we do involves educating young people or people from our community and kind of from the community service area, the area around the community that a lot of our students are about 18.4% of our students are non-native for us. I don't know what Anna's percentage is, we run, you know, most tribal colleges run between 15 and 20%, somewhere in there, right? So we're educating people not only how to connect with their identity, connect with their culture, connect with their spirituality, because not all of them know how to do that. And that comes from years of historical trauma and years of separation of people from their identity, from their land, from their place. So that's a job that we have. We have a job of educating our Indigenous students to be Indigenous people living in a modern world. And that we can have a podcast probably just on that. What is it like to be an indigenous person prepared to live in a modern world and prepared to be a citizen of their nation, but also of the nation of the United States, how to advocate for themselves, their nation and their citizenship in the United States. 

And so I think that as tribal colleges, I believe we're successful in achieving that. And so one of the ways I know that, like for example, one of the ways, and I think that, you know, we also have had this theme here with tribal college partnerships, right? So how we all help each other, how we all work together. We recently got a grant, a next gen grant. It's a STEM grant. It's a five-year grant in partnership with Fond du Lac tribal college. This grant is going to enable us to not only help our students learn ways that they can be caretakers of the land that their ancestors were the original caretakers of, really that's what we're doing. We're also going to be re-educating or educating our community about that and guests to our community about that. 

We are developing an Indigenous early childhood teaching certificate in partnership with our headstart. That is something that we're very excited about because now we're going to be able to start not in the middle of development, but really in the beginning of development, right? And taking some of that education back, tying it back to land-based practices and land-based learning and place-based learning and cultural learning and language. We're developing a, I don't know that any other institutions have it. I don't want to say it's first and it's fine because somebody else might have it, but I don't think so. We're developing an associate's degree right now in Ojibwe language and teaching Ojibwe language in other spaces. So that's a huge thing for us, right? Talk about being an indigenous person living in a modern world. Now we will have an accredited degree teaching an indigenous language or in indigenous language and in teaching indigenous language.

So these are ways that we are not only preparing our students to be citizens, again, of multiple nations as all Native American people are, but also we're preparing our students to be advocates and nation builders, to continue to do. Because what we want is we don't want our students to leave their nation. They're a place we want them to stay. We want them to have the skills and the interests and the capacity to help their nation and their communities grow and thrive. And so I think that if we think of tribal colleges in that sense, and as Anna said, you know, it's a place where culture and spirituality and identity and education and everything connect, we as tribal college presidents and as tribal college staff and faculty have much bigger jobs that, and we're like doing this with like three people basically. You know, I think that that's kind of the awesomeness and the challenge of tribal colleges. And it's difficult to ask for help. It's never easy to ask for help, but we have to, we have to be able to ask for help as we did, you know, from the state, from the federal, you know, we're just, going, you know, here in a couple of weeks, we're gonna travel to Washington DC and we're going to bring our students and we're going to teach our students to advocate for themselves and for their communities. And that's a huge thing for us to do, you know, because then they can teach their kids and their relatives about that. 

I think that, you know, we do a great job and I think that it's a really multi-layered and complex job that we do as tribal colleges. I really wouldn't want to be anywhere else other than a tribal college, but it is, sometimes it's a complicated and challenging thing to do this work.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I loved how you articulated that message. So simply, but so passionately, breaking down how we have to, as they refer, walk in two worlds. I loved... President Shepard, do you want to wrap this question up?

Anna Sheppard: Sure. So we're a little bit different. We're probably around, I would say, 20 to 25% are non-Indigenous for our student population. I'm supposed to be a statistician. How dare you. That was my emphasis in my dissertation. Sorry. And so, yeah, no worries. 

So one of the things that I think is awesome is like President Montgomery said, she said, you know, that we have the same accreditation as our peers in the state. We have to, you know, meet the same criteria. Like I said, we have them coming this fall for a big accreditation, you know, so, you know, we're preparing for that and getting that ready. But one of the things that I think is really neat is that, you know, we open it up to all students. So we purposely in our name will say Tribal and Community College. And so that way it's opened up to everyone because you would not believe how many people think it's only for indigenous students. And it's like, no, it's for anyone. 

And so what I think is awesome is that TCUs, Tribal Colleges and Universities, do have our non-indigenous peers coming there because they're now going to be allies for us because they're going to get that information and be able to, you know what's happening, you know, in our Indigenous ways, but also to be a voice for us to help us, you know, navigate through this. Because that's instrumental. 

So yeah, so I applaud anyone who has a lot of, you know, allies going to their college, because that's a huge thing. We want to share our knowledge, we just don't want to keep it to ourselves, we want to share it. And so like she was talking about, you know, we have all these different things that we need to do. We just last week had a ceremony on campus. And so some of our students, this is the first time they get to experience ceremonies. And so we did the changing of the seasons. And so as staff, we make sure that we bring in the food and come with our bundles and ribbon skirts with the proper attire, et cetera. So they get to experience that. 

Some of our staff members will do their naming ceremony at the college to open it up again. Because usually that's a private thing with the immediate family, but they'll open it up just so students can experience again that language and information. So and so with our college, we don't have a teaching certificate, but we do definitely have Ojibwe Anishinaabe certificate. And so we're excited about that one. And, and I know President Montgomery is creating that piece. So I hope she goes for that Head Start Pathways grant. We do have that currently right now. So we're educating all of our Head Start teachers, you know, or those who want to go into that field to help them with that navigation. 

But yeah, it is so imperative, you know, to look at the educational realm, you know, from even pregnant moms, you know, getting that information out because a lot of times people don't realize that the learning is already occurring, you know, from the music that you're listening to the books, how you talk, you don't want to be in an environment where it's you know a lot of negative things because that has a huge impact on that child. So yeah, there's a lot of education pieces. So yeah, I'm excited that they're also moving into that venue. 

So going back to that question about some of the things so yeah, I purposely wore this shirt and I've got to unbutton it here. But one of my current students, she's also going to be going out with me to DC she made this so WETCC and wrote their full name across it. I was super excited because she came and gifted that to me. And so I was like, yes, I will wear this. And so she wanted me to have that. And yeah, she does different things, makes tumblers. But yeah, so she's excited to come out there, share her story of why we need TCUs and then talk about the ask. So this is their first time getting to do that information, you know, they're being stepped into a leadership role too, as you know, as a younger student to have that experience. 

And then, you know, to talk with us to you know, we're very real. Even on campus, I don't think I ever get referred to as President Shepard is always my first name. And so yeah, so that's fun. And so I, you know, I just went into a class and, and shared and talked about vision boards, because it's our first year experience course. And so they're talking about that one because that was an interesting story. The faculty came into my office and she was just, you know, talking, you know, about the issue that she had, you know, wanted to address. And then she happened to look around and she's like, is that a vision board over there? I'm like, yes, that's my vision board. And so, and so from that, that spurred like, we have, you know, a unit on that. Would you be willing to come talk about that? So I'm like, yes. 

And so one of the other things that we are doing too, so I'm super excited is strengths quest or strength finders. And we're going to be implementing that. We're actually going to send one of our deans out to become a trainer so that way we will take, you know, this information. Because what I like about that is I'm not sure how many of you've heard about this program, but basically you have the psychologist who kind of had, you know, kind of a, you know, paradigm shift and he wanted to look at these fortune 500 companies and find what traits do they possess that are similar? And so from that he came up with this survey and the survey you can do very quickly and it'll identify what your top five talents are. And so if you focus on those talents, they will now become your strengths. 

And so that's kind of a huge shift because how many times have you heard, you know, especially going back to your childhood, like practice makes perfect. You gotta keep doing that. You're not good at this. Let's keep pushing and pushing and pushing. And so this kind of changes that whole mindset and saying, you know what, we know that that's not your strength. That's not your real house, but who do you know that is, who can you partner to help you with that task at hand? And then vice versa. Now that you know, your top five talent things are let's make them these huge bright shining stars. So that becomes your area dominance and where you're really going to just take off and shine. And so I'm excited about that piece. 

And then with that, we are going to have our students start to become mentors to other students. So that's going to be a huge shift. And so the other thing that we're looking at trying to create is bringing in elders and so have them become mentors also for our students because we know students, you know, have that respect and we'll listen to them. Just like with our student senate, we brought in an elder and she brought it in a talking stick and you know, got them to navigate and work successfully. So it's just so imperative because, you know, they are our first teachers. That's where we learn. And so we got to acknowledge that and, you know, bring them in and just be that cohesive piece. 

Like Helen was alluding to, we wear so many more hats because, yes, we have to do the education component, but we also have to meet the needs of the students of where they're at. And our student body looks very different than our peers. What we have to deal with constantly, some different pieces from cars, not working, to childcare, to vice versa, some mental health issues. Our average students is around 32 to 34 right in that age range. So a lot of them have children, or vice versa, their aunties and uncles, and they're now taking care of others. They might be taking care of their parents or their grandparents. So we have lot more different complexities and issues that we have to take into it. And vice versa, one of our faculty members gets called a lot to preside with funerals and different ceremonies. So we have to be very understanding, too, and you know the students in this class know that that's also a role that he has to do and so again it's a teachable moment that they get to do that and share that so yeah so those are some things and that we definitely have coming down with the students and so I'm excited to bring them out to DC too so and then also for them just to meet other TCU students. They love that they come back excited like, did you hear about this TCU, what they're doing and we should do that. And so it's always kind of a thing where they get fired up. So yeah.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: That is excellent. I feel like you are all change makers in your community and you're cultivating an environment where your students will one day be those change makers, very cyclical. You know, we often hear the seventh generation, not for just... We're doing it all for those that will come after us. So I think you're doing important work. And I really appreciate that you came and spoke with us today. Joe, I don't know if you wanted to say goodbye to the ladies as well.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: I would love to say goodbye. You guys, it was amazing to listen to this. I was going to interrupt, but I was like, then it's so terrible if I interrupt because the conversation was so good between the three of you. Let's just give a hand to our host of this mini-series focusing on tribal colleges and universities. Dr. Erica Moore. Erica, I think you're a pro. I think you've done this enough times now we have to consider you a pro.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: No.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. Our guests today, we have Anna Shepard. She's the president of White Earth Tribal Community College. And Dr. Helen Montgomery, she's the president of Leech Lake Tribal College in Minnesota. Ladies, we hope you had a great time on the podcast today listening and learning from each other. What an honor it is to use this platform to highlight today's colleges, tribal colleges and universities. So thank you for being a part of it.

Anna Sheppard: Yes, thank you. I'm super excited just to share that information out there. So yeah, so miigwech.

Dr. Helen Zaikina-Montgomery: Yes, thanks, Joe. And thanks, Erica and Anna. Thanks for pulling me into this and Joe, as a tribal college president, I became interested in tribal law. So I am thinking about going to law school. So next time you see me, I will be president Dr. Helen Montgomery Esquire.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Added into that title, that introduction next... We're going to introduce you seven ways from Sunday, literally. Exactly. You just put the whole alphabet up there.

Dr. Helen Zaikina-Montgomery: Yes. But thank you. Thank you so much for this opportunity. And thank you for presenting us at the forum to talk about this. I feel like we came up with at least three more, you know, podcast topics that we can spin out into an hour, but thanks again.

Dr. Joe Sallustio: Thank you so much. Talk to the boss, Dr. Erica Moore for, she's got control of this mini series so she can do as many of these as she wants, we decided. With that, ladies and gentlemen, you've just EdUped.