847: EdUp Tribal Colleges & Universities (TCUs) Mini Series - with Dr. Duane Bedell⁠, President, ⁠Bay Mills Community College⁠, & ⁠Justina Wilhelm⁠, President, ⁠Ilisagvik College⁠

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Welcome back, everybody. It's your time to add up on the Ed Up Experience podcast, where we make education your business. I'm Dr. Erica Moore, and I'm the host of this special mini-series on Ed Up, highlighting tribal colleges and universities and their innovative leaders. I was introduced to the Ed Up Experience by President Perfetti of Middle States Commission on Higher Education. I agreed to be a guest, even though I was super nervous with public speaking and hearing my voice on audio.

Two years later, I was then asked to co-host an episode and this led to Joe just not showing up and somehow I'm a host all by myself. So I'm just kidding. He did a really great transition and I decided to bring my colleague on to join me. So let me bring in Amber Morseau to introduce herself to the Ed Up family. Hello Amber.

Amber Morseau: Hello everyone. My name is Amber Morseau. I am the Indigenous Institutional Transformation Specialist with AIHEC. This is my first podcast, so I'm excited to be here. 

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Thank you, Ms. Morseau for offering this opportunity to interview two of our really awesome tribal college presidents. So I'm going to share the mic over with President Duane Bedell from Bay Mills Community College in Brimley, Michigan, and Justina Wilhelm from Iḷisaġvik College in Utqiaġvik, Alaska.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Good afternoon. My name is Duane Bedell. I am from Bay Mills Indian Community, otherwise known as Gnoozhekaaning, which means the place of the pike. We are located 20 miles west of Sault Ste. Marie, which is the largest city up in the Eastern Upper Peninsula. We are a tribal college that services three counties in our area. And we do have a good relationship with a lot of our school districts here as well.

I am the third president for Bay Mills Community College. In my prior role, I was the tribal manager for Bay Mills Indian Community. I did that for two years. Since my transition coming over to Bay Mills Community College, I can say I absolutely love it. I love the work that we do for our students and with our students. But most of all, I loved seeing our students have that light bulb go off to where they are learning that they are confident in themselves and that they can succeed at anything that they want possible.

But overall, as part of the tribal college movement, I just love what we all do as all of our institutions throughout the United States here do for all of our students and just provide a good educational opportunity for our students and for our communities. With that, I'd like to turn it over to my colleague, President Wilhelm.

Justina Wilhelm: Thank you, President Bedell. I introduced myself in Iñupiaq. My name is Justina Wilhelm and my Iñupiaq name is Aġnauraq and I work at Iḷisaġvik College and I consider myself from Utqiaġvik. I've been in Barrow - some people call it Utqiaġvik, some people call it Barrow. Just a few years ago they transitioned back to the Indigenous name of Utqiaġvik.

I've lived here for 36 years. I am married to my husband who is Iñupiaq from Utqiaġvik and from the Canadian region. And together we have four children ranging in age from 14 to 26. I have the honor to serve as Iḷisaġvik College's president. We are Alaska's only tribal college. We are located in the northernmost tip of Alaska. You have to, the only way to get there is by airplane.

And we have been incorporated since 1996. We are, I echo President Bedell, are proud to be a tribal college. We are proud to embed our indigenous values in all things at our institution. Our student population is just, it's a joy to work with. I come from a health background. I've been with the college since 2017 in institutional advancement and then moved on to the vice president of administration. And in October of 2020 is when I became the president there. And I remember being recruited from the former president to work, to come work at a college. And I thought, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? I was so used to working with our community in a health aspect. But when I got to the college, it was just light bulbs went off. And I remember walking to her office a couple months into the job, like this is amazing. Like it's just a different way of helping our community in a different capacity, but it's so very rewarding. So I'm glad to be here today.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Thank you for sharing both of you. Since you both mentioned the pride you have for both your communities and your institutions, I wanted to start off with a really positive question for you both. What would you like the world to know that you're most proud about regarding your campus and your community if you want to talk about them interchangeably and the work that you're doing on your campus for your people?

Dr. Duane Bedell: Thank you. So I guess I will start. What I'm most proud of is that I'm going to go back several years here is that when I first came back to Bay Mills, there were only two tribal members who had master's degrees. And at that point, education really was not at the forefront of our community. However, fast forward 25 years now, we have several tribal members here who have associate's degrees from Bay Mills Community College, but they also went on to get their bachelor's degrees. And now we have a number, a huge number of citizens here who have their master's degrees. And then we also have folks who are pursuing their PhD degrees right now.

So to me, I'm really proud of that. And why I'm proud of that is because Bay Mills Community College really played the role in transitioning the whole society here in our community to make education important again, to make education the forefront and to show our tribal members and our local surrounding community that education can open so many doors.

But at the same time, it also teaches the community members to gain confidence in themselves. Also to show them that, you know, if they work hard enough at something that they can be successful. And we've seen that here, not only with the pride within the community, but as the tribe begins to expand across their enterprises, you're seeing all of the education come back in and the experiences in their communities that is really building up the tribal community to places that we could not even foresee 20, 25 years ago. 

And then just the growth of Bay Mills Community College. I forgot to mention this in my introduction, but we are celebrating our 40th year this year. So we've been chartered by the Bay Mills Indian Community since 1984. And with that, you know, with the logo that's on my shirt, this is a new logo that we had a community member design for us. But we're just very happy that we are able to provide this education opportunity. But at the same time, continue our growth to where we can impact not only our community, but tribal communities across the nation as well. 

But one of the things that I'm really particularly proud of is that I am seeing children come across, I shouldn't say children, but students come across now that I had mentored in elementary school years ago, or I actually had someone come up to me not too long ago and I haven't seen this person in probably I would say 15, 16 years when I coached little league football for a long time and they just walked up to me and said, "Hey, coach Bedell," I'm looking at him. I had no clue who he was until he told me his name, but just to see the kids that I had a potential impact on when they were younger, moving up into the ranks and actually come back and get the education experience and watching them transfer on to another university. And I think this particular student right now is set to defend their dissertation here in the near future. 

Wow, that's amazing. Amazing. So you know, to me that's a really highlight of the area too.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Amazing. Thank you for sharing. Congrats on your 40 years. That's awesome.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Thank you.

Justina Wilhelm: Yeah. So a little bit about Iḷisaġvik and thinking community and thinking our campus. I think that's one thing about tribal colleges is that we're holistic. We're for our community. We were built to support the needs of our community. And being married into the culture - my husband is a whaling captain. We have different seasons of hunting. We hunt for the bowhead whale. It's a year-round process of preparation from catching different types of animals from seals to polar bears to caribou and all of that. And one thing that is great for us at Iḷisaġvik is we get to bring all of the rich cultural knowledge, the cultural experts into the classroom. 

If our students are homesick, just the simple thing of let's just gather and eat. When you involve food, it just breaks down so much. You tell stories, you laugh, you create that sense of family for our students and they feel connected with that when you bring our elders in or you bring somebody who's either a seamstress, a beader. You see their little lights go off and they're just, it creates like a sense of comfort for them. And for us as president to see that it's just so rewarding that we have the gift of our culture to give in that capacity. 

Our vision is to grow our own and support our own workforce development. We are a subset of our North Slope Borough government, which is our home rule government with self-sovereignty. So we have that ability to acknowledge what our past leaders fought for to have education at home and to not have to leave home to go out to get their education and be away from all of those important ties. So I think that's one thing I'm really proud about the college is that they could remain in the community. If it's a specific hunting season, we work with our faculty to be flexible with attendance. If they need to have extension on their assignments and things of that nature, that we're able to prioritize that with the importance of what the culture means to our students. That's one thing that I'm happy to share. 

And another thing is, education is fairly new to - you think about our grandparents, my husband's mother went to boarding school and she wasn't able to do that. So bringing higher education into our community, sometimes that's not looked upon in a positive way. So to build that to our community that, hey, we're here at home, we have education here. And to make our students feel that our tribal college is a meaningful college. We're accredited. You could save money. We support our students and are thankful for our community partners who help pay for tuition waiver programs, working with our school district for dual credit opportunities, creating that pipeline when they're in the K-12 pipeline to give them opportunities of what the potential of higher education means. 

And not every student is wanting to be a full-time 12 credit student semester long. So really valuing the workforce development short-term trainings to keep our communities going, we need those CDL drivers. We need the HAZWOPER, the first aid, the CPR, the food prep classes to make sure that we have qualified individuals to fill our employment needs. So really proud of the synergies and the ability to be nimble and flexible with - if somebody comes to us and says, hey, we need this training before in a couple of weeks or else we're not gonna be able to provide this service to our community. We could make that happen. We don't have to go through that big bureaucracy of what higher, what other maybe larger institutions have to get approvals and waiting for meetings and that. So I love that we have that flexibility.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Thank you for sharing. I love that. What season is the whale hunting? That's when I'll come.

Justina Wilhelm: Yes, so we have spring season, which typically starts March, April, May, and the celebration is what is beautiful in June when we get to celebrate and just feed the entire community. And then we also have fall season, which is usually a September, October season where we do that. And then it continues on back to the community with our feast, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and just giving back to everybody. We don't turn anyone away. You're whoever you are, if you want to come help the whole community is able to come be a part of harvesting and they get their shares and there's no monetary gift and we're able to just, to work hard and it's a tired heart. 'Cause once you catch a whale, you can't just stop and go to bed and say, hey, come back. Sometimes it's a 24, 48 hour event, but it's a good tired, tired. If that makes any sense.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Yes, that's exciting. I'm gonna pass it to Amber, see if you have any questions for the presidents.

Amber Morseau: Yeah, so we talked a little bit about your cultural programs that you all have. Let's talk about some academic programs. I know you both have very distinct academic programs at your institutions. President Bedell, you have a really unique setup with your language program at Bay Mills Community College. And then President Wilhelm, I know you all just got some new equipment for your heavy machinery operations program as well. Do you want to talk a little bit about those?

Justina Wilhelm: You want me to take this one first, President Bedell?

Dr. Duane Bedell: Sure.

Justina Wilhelm: All right. So our heavy equipment is so vital for our community to make sure the roads are cleared if it's summer months with dirt or winter months with snow to make sure that we have CDL operations as well as just adult drivers, basic driver's license. So we have these wonderful simulators that are by three large screens, one in front of you, two on the sides, and it gives you the full life simulator experience. If you were to tip over, if you were to maybe crash, feel the shaking or the tipping to provide the behind the wheel simulators and then onto the actual heavy equipment or vehicle for training. So those are really great equipments that we have. 

And we also on the science realm of things for our sciences, we have an Anatomage table where it is amazing where you could see the layers of the muscle, the bone, the different types of if you're pregnant, and it allows that wonderful visual opportunity for our students to utilize.

Dr. Duane Bedell: So before I answer, President Wilhelm, have you had the opportunity to experience that table personally?

Justina Wilhelm: Yes. It's like a six foot table that could be laid down laterally where if like you're looking over, or also could stand all the way up so that you're looking at somebody standing beside you where it's kind of like if you think of a smartphone where you use your fingers to either zoom in and zoom out, it's just amazing.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Great technology. I asked that because we do have one here on campus. However, I'm never on campus when they are actually using that as part of their courses. So one of these days I'll pop into a lesson on it, but it looks fascinating. I can remember when the delivery truck showed up for it was on a semi and it took our entire maintenance department and their driver to get that device put into a classroom. So I believe that I wouldn't recommend using that after eating lunch. It's very, very detailed.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Yeah. I want to know, President Bedell, are you purposely not on campus when they're doing it?

Dr. Duane Bedell: Some may say that. No, no, I'm just kidding. So at Bay Mills, Amber, you touched on our language program. So, you know, just like all of the other tribal colleges, culture and language is very important to us. And one of the missions at BMCC is not only to preserve our language, but also to preserve our culture. And what we do with a lot of our courses is that we inject some kind of cultural component to every one of our courses. So it doesn't matter if you're taking a computer science course, it doesn't matter if you're taking a business administration or early childhood education course, you are going to receive some kind of assignment or research project that revolves around the Ojibwe culture. 

So we also show our students and teach our students how to introduce themselves in Ojibwe, how to say certain phrases and so on. And we're slowly transforming our campus to where all of our signage is going to be written in Ojibwe right now. So we're in a little transition to that. But one of the pride and joys here is our Nishnaabemwin program, which is an immersion language program that has been going on for about 20 years now. And when it first started, it started off as a field credit course, but it has evolved into a two-year diploma, a four-year diploma, and a six-year diploma, which means that during the Nishnaabemwin program, it's a total immersion program. So when folks sign up for this course and they attend the classes, there's not one word of English that's spoken. It's complete immersion. And we have first speakers here on campus that will provide the dialect or dialogue and instruction and so on. 

What I should clarify about first speakers on campus, we have adjunct instructors that come from Ontario, that come from our local region to share the language with our students who are interested. And this program has been successful for a number of years. I think it's produced, you know, a lot of folks accomplishing the two, four and six year diplomas to where they are very comfortable listening to the language and very comfortable speaking the language as well. 

We also did some work with Northern Michigan University to where I believe, and Amber, I might ask you to back me up on this one, but to where I believe that it ended up producing a sort of certification for teachers to be able to teach us at a high school level and that will count as their language requirement for the high school curriculum as well. And that was a project that, and I'm going to give Amber credit for this, that she helped work on and so on with her work at Northern Michigan University before too. 

Currently we are taking a look at that program to see what else we can do with that. We do have some graduates who graduated with their six year diploma, secure diploma, which means that they can't really participate in the program again at college level courses. But I think we're working on CEUs right now to where we can continue that continuing education and give them access to listening to the language through videos on YouTube. Maybe have a guest speaker come in and provide some lectures as well. So that way folks who want to continue to immerse themselves in the language can do that as well.

Justina Wilhelm: President Bedell, I would love to get more information on that immersion language. That's something that we had pretty strong probably 20 years ago in our community. And it kind of fizzled out with various transitions. And our community is our school district in particular is really working towards bringing that back to the forefront.

Dr. Duane Bedell: So, you know, on a personal story, my daughter, she graduated high school actually a year early, but she did not want to take Spanish nor did she want to take French. She started her school career off at one of the schools that we authorize, which is happened to be a school just around the corner, the Ojibwe Charter School. And since she's been in kindergarten, they have incorporated language in that as well. Well, she transitioned over to the public school district here, and they only offered French or Spanish. But with this program that came out just recently, she was able to take Ojibwe 1, Ojibwe 2, and count that as her requirements and so on. And she of course did well in that because, you know, as most teenagers or your kids, if they're truly interested in it, they're going to be really well at it. So I was really thankful that they had a path for her to accomplish her language requirements as well. So President Wilhelm, I will get some information sent over to you.

Justina Wilhelm: Thanks. Something as we're talking about the language realm of things, our former president, Dr. Pearl Brower, in 2017, we worked with our board to make note that if any individual wants to learn our language, that all language classes would be free to residents. So they don't need to be program active if they just want to take those courses, that it would be free because we feel that people shouldn't have to pay to learn their language.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I love that. It's amazing.

Dr. Duane Bedell: So well, one of the things here, you know along the lines of what President Wilhelm just stated for community members and or for any member that is a part of a federally recognized tribe is that we will waive their tuition for them to take these courses. So most of them are in our Nishnaabemwin program will get that that requirement waived as well. And that's something that we will continue to do as far as I'm here and hopefully you know whomever takes control in many, many, many years will see that same path as well too.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Yeah, that's amazing. So recently we were all together in DC the week of February 5th and this year it was established as National Tribal Colleges and Universities week officially. So every year the week of February 5th will be your week. I would love for you to just talk about what that means for you and then also maybe touch on any of the amazing things that might've come out of the trip for you, for your staff, for your students, and why Hill Week for us is just so important.

Dr. Duane Bedell: With National Tribal College Week, it's really important for us because I think what it does, it highlights the significance of tribal colleges and universities. And it actually, you know, it helps us showcase the impact that we have on our communities to where it's not only our communities recognizing what we do, but on a nationwide level, it allows everybody to learn more about tribal colleges and universities. 

The Week on the Hill in DC was very significant for the folks that I brought with me. As you all know, being part of AIHEC and President Wilhelm, being part of AIHEC, we go there every year and we advocate on behalf of tribal colleges and universities. But we all know the true stars of these visits to the Hill are our students. Well, I and even some board members that come along because they can see the tribal college presidents in action and doing the work that we do to advocate for TCUs. But at the same time, it gives the opportunity for students to really learn how to engage with their congressional delegates and listen to some of the congressional leaders speak. But also most importantly, to be able to share the voice on how a tribal college impacted them and their families and the communities.

I know this last group that I brought, I brought one student and another alumni, but just to hear their stories about how it impacted them currently, how it has impacted them in the past, but also opened up so many doors to them. And one of the things that I just heard feedback on the student that we brought back with us, he really enjoyed meeting a couple of our representatives. One of our representatives in our district is Representative Bergman, who happened to be a, I think it was a general in the Marines. When the student that I brought with me was a Marine and he just, he got out, to come to school. So he really enjoyed meeting up Representative Bergman because they could share. And it was like an almost instant connection because as soon as my student walked in, he walks and he still walks like a Marine, well, once a Marine, always a Marine. Just the way that he stood. Representative Bergman picked that up immediately and just, he didn't even have to say anything. He knew that he was a Marine and those two just hit it off. 

But the other aspect of it too is that some of the folks that we bring really never leave our communities. Yes. Washington DC, the business of Washington DC and just all of the culture that's in Washington DC. This same student, the Marine, unfortunately for me, I agreed to walk around to all of the sites with him. And I think in one day we both, well, I looked at my watch and I had over 10 miles of walking. And we did the same thing. I didn't go 10 miles. I think he probably did, but just the fact just to help them explore the city, because it was his first time being in Washington, DC. He actually wrote a nice little note for me just to say that he really appreciated the visit and he was really glad that he could share his story. But most of all, he enjoyed just meeting all of the other students at the event as well too.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I feel very bad that I Ubered most of the time now around DC.

Justina Wilhelm: You got all your steps in and I was looking for my taxi the whole time. Just kidding, but go ahead President Wilhelm. One of these years I'm going to be brave enough to rent one of those mopeds.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: No.

Justina Wilhelm: Our students did this round. Let us record it. Yeah, I agree with President Bedell. Our students, those are our, we could say, it's kind of like a parent, you could say something and say something, but when somebody else says it, it just means so much more or they may click. And when it comes to speaking with our state delegation and hearing directly from our students, who else better than to hear directly from them who have those experiences in the classroom and our institution and could share their stories.

This year we brought two students and a non-traditional student, a mother who was full distance taking 12 classes, had eight children and homeschools her children. So she shared her story, which was very unique and to her. And then we had a student who was fresh from graduating high school and she was staying in our dorms and this was her first year at college. So to hear those two different stories, even for myself knowing the students, but sitting in watching them, you know, bear up the nervousness of public speaking and sharing their personal stories. You know, I commend them. They did such a wonderful job of just advocating for our tribal colleges and universities. 

And they really appreciated seeing other tribal colleges, you know, in Alaska, where we're so far away from everybody. And we have our Alaska indigenous culture, but to be able to be amongst other tribal colleges and to see the connections, even though there's differences, was very empowering to them. And they appreciated that aspect of seeing other students. I think the visibility is so important to be there during that week and to continue those conversations every year. There's such important needs for our Indigenous and Tribal colleges, you know, we're... We're not as big as HBCUs and others where it's great that we're able to have this dedicated time to share our stories and to just thinking of like the various funding that we get. That's so critical for our institutions to operate. So I really appreciate the tribal college opportunity at AIHEC. I look forward to that every year, even though it's a very long plane ride to get there.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Yeah, I have many layovers if I go outside of South Dakota. So, not as many as you, but I think, you know, really quickly, I was there, obviously, I worked for AIHEC and the VP of, you know, the student success team, Amber, is on my team, the student success team, and we often talk about, you know, we need to incorporate student voice more. Most often we're meeting the college presidents or your transformation teams. And so our partner. So after two days of like crying as our students told their stories in our meetings, I contacted the funder who's out of DC and said, you need to meet us. You need to meet the students. And so they did, they took us out to dinner and spoke with our students and they all were sharing their stories and they felt really, you know, important, like someone's finally listening like to us in this space and two and a half years of advocating for certain pieces throughout that initiative, the funder, our program officer just speaking to those four students, like it clicked for them. And I'm like, how do we lose so often the separation of the student and the work that we're doing? 

So how do you stay focused on the student and ensuring the decisions you're making as presidents that are going to impact your entire campus and your entire community always come from the perspective of nation building and this support for the student?

Dr. Duane Bedell: Did you want me to take this one first, President Wilhelm?

Justina Wilhelm: Yeah.

Dr. Duane Bedell: So one of the things that we do here is that we continuously engage our students. And I can confidently state that every decision that we make as an institution revolves around a student. So we always take a look at what we can do better to help the students. What resources can we provide for our students? What ways can we help our students if they have something that they need to accomplish outside of school and use our college as a resource for them both academically, professionally, and even personally?

And some of the things that just come to light, us participating in emergency aid programs and making, they're taking the time and putting the effort into ensuring that we can secure those funds for emergency aid. That opens a lot of opportunities for our students so that way they don't have to worry about financial burdens or anything else like that. But our student services, I will say here is the outside of our academic department is the driving force behind what we do for our students because they are the ones, not the particular department, are the ones that interact with our students day in and day out. And we get feedback from our students and every piece of feedback that comes across my team's desk or my desk, we really certainly take a look at that and then we try to strategize on how we can best find a solution for any suggestions that come across that way is going to benefit the students the most. 

And I think, one of the things that I even state when I meet with our four-year university partners is that what I try to do with that is that when I'm meeting with their college president or some of provosts, I always state that, you know, we give our students the opportunity to call us at BMCC once they're done with our program here for them to look for resources for your university because oftentimes, as we know, folks who go to a larger university don't become a name or aren't a name anymore, they're a number. And I'm sure that all tribal colleges do this, we go and look for those resources and point them into the right direction and so on. 

So, you know, just to say, you know, and I think I can safely say this on behalf of all tribal colleges is that we seriously are committed to our students and their needs first and our decisions as leaders of these colleges revolve on what the needs are for students. So that way we can have most impact for them and that way we can set them up for success wherever they may go.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Absolutely. I love that.

Justina Wilhelm: So something I appreciate when I have these opportunities to meet with other presidents, President Bedell, thinking of President Pattea, Little Priest, is getting ideas from them, like connecting through social media, the Facebook opportunities to see what other TCUs are doing. I seen President Bedell, had the donuts with the students, donuts and coffee the other day. Those little things are just so valuable. I took the, from President Pattea's suggestion of pizza with the president and just letting them know, hey, we're gonna have pizza. You can ask me any questions. There's not gonna be no other staff or anyone in there. It's just president and students. Ask away, there's no wrong questions. What's going great? Could we do better? And then at the end, I'm going to ask you questions and you can give me feedback. 

And those little opportunities are so helpful where you get to hear directly from them. If it's a food concern, if it's an advising concern, building those relationships. Just last week when I was in the office, I had two students walk in my office and they just said, we just came to say hi. And I said, I love it. You made my day. They're like, yeah, we just wanted to see what you were doing. And it's been a while. So hi, President Wilhelm. And I said, I'm so glad you all stopped by. And those little interactions make a difference. 

And at Iḷisaġvik College, we have something where we say students first. So we're here for our students, and there should be no wrong door. And if one of us don't have that answer, walk with them down the hall and don't just say, go see whoever, that's not my job. We're all here, all hands on deck to help our students. Because if it wasn't for our students, we wouldn't have a job. You know, we're here to work for them. 

And the student services team is great because we often know as a small institution where you're able to familiarize with students, oftentimes it's not the academic things that they're struggling with. It's more of the social, emotional, the basic needs on, you know, do they have a laptop? Do they have food? Do they have stuff for emergency aid with clothing? A jacket, things like that. Maybe they're grieving and they lost a loved one at home and they just need some extra time to be with their family and things like that. 

So I think it's really important where you have the big A advising and the little A where the student services comes in to make sure they know how to use the technology. I know in our culture, we're a little bit more quiet and if you're on Zoom, you lose a lot of with distance classes and really advocating and sharing with our faculty the importance of in-person connections. Just to have those informal hallway, you're walking down the hall and you have those conversations and people know you by name. 

We had a student who started with us and then he went off to another university in Alaska and then came back this semester and said it was too big and it's, Iḷisaġvik is so much more supportive. One of our student services staff said, so what made you come back? He's like, you guys are just way more helpful and it's just more comfortable to be here at our institution. And that speaks volumes when you hear that from our students and kudos to our staff for being able to have that small student number in the classroom. I think our average student size is five for Iḷisaġvik. So we have fairly small classes, but that gives that opportunity for our faculty to really get to know our students.

Dr. Duane Bedell: One thing, if I can piggyback off of that, when I was a faculty member here at BMCC and when I was still in the classroom, I certainly appreciated having the smaller class sizes because it gave me the opportunity to know the students, know them personally. Often I found out what their children's names were, what their goals were and so on. And taking that experience and coming into this experience and now I still have that same mentality.

I will take an hour of every morning and walk around campus to greet students and staff and not count work at all just just to get to know them. And what's just gonna help for you if you want more students to come to your office president is that I purchased our actually I had a refrigerator purchase for me that's always stocked with water, pop, noodles, water, they love noodles, I have a snack basket on top of it that's open to anybody.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I love that.

Dr. Duane Bedell: They can come in and grab it. In fact, I came in this morning and I know it was filled when I left last Friday, but it was empty. And then my assistant came in and filled it again and she was, well, you're not here. Who's taking us? Well, if the door is open, people can come in and grab that. The right part about it too is also coffee, I always say that the president's office has the best coffee on campus. But when I tell students that, I say when you come up, the only requirement is for you to say hello, or if I see you first, I will say hello and you might have to answer a few questions. Other than that, it's helped with the student engagement.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: So I would say good job too. Love it. We used to cook meals every evening on Sinte Gleska's Lower Brule campus and students, you know we always had the open door, we were feeding them. So often I had one of the support staff come in and say, did you want me to remove the students from your office? And I'm like, what students? They were always just come in and would use the little desk in my office and they were there so often. I wouldn't even realize when they'd come and go. And I think, you know, that is the really uniqueness of tribal colleges. We want it to feel like home, not just an education experience. But go ahead, Amber. So you came off mute.

Amber Morseau: Yeah, it just everything that you all have said has really had this underlying theme of community, right? Serving the community, doing cultural activities with the community, really being in tune to the community's needs. So outside of the student experience, how do you see the college impacting the Brimley community or the Utqiaġvik community? Where did you start to see some of those connections there?

Justina Wilhelm: I'll go on this one. So just yesterday I was in a meeting, the last couple of days I was in meetings and we have this group on the North Slope, we're a fairly large state. The North Slope is a big thing, 84,000 square miles or acres, 84,000 square miles. And we have a group that brought over 30 members with our native corporations, our native tribes, and our cities, and then the regional, where it's Iḷisaġvik College, our school district, our main Arctic Slope regional corporation, and our federally recognized Iñupiat Community of the Arctic Slope. And we meet, we all meet together, and we're called the Voice of the Arctic Iñupiat. And just had that constant community. We need to break down the silos. We all work for the same people. What could we do to help our community and help our people with the foundation of our culture? You know, that's, it's for our indigenous people who are here before all of the Western ways were established. It was just so humbling to hear from the elders to the young leaders in the room how we can all work together to support our people. 

During that meeting, I had gotten a text and said, do you have a minute? And it was an individual who was sharing, well, these people were wanting funding, but they're not from our region. And somebody said, why can't we, this should be supported through Iḷisaġvik College and Iḷisaġvik offers this. And I really appreciate the opportunity where our communities want to reinvest and make sure that it's being spent in our community and in our institutions to support the various pieces of what's important. And oftentimes in our community, when it comes to whaling and hunting, you're in a boat and it's so important that everybody on the boat and everybody works together and there's different whaling crews, but even the different whaling crews, when you catch a whale, you all come together and the whole community comes and you have to work together. And they use that example a lot with different varieties of our meetings and when we're working together about Atausiq Uqautchim, we need to work together, we need to all be together. And even if you have personal strife or whatever, you put all that aside, you set it aside and we all work together for our people and our community. And I think that's so important to have that because the more people together, the stronger we are and the better that we're able to create a healthy community.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I really like that. That's really good and awesome to hear.

Dr. Duane Bedell: You know, as far as engaging our community here at in Brimley or Bay Mills, one of the things that I'm really proud of is that now that we have created a really nice connection with our local ISDs or school districts. So and also other communities or other organizations around our surrounding community as well. For many, many years, BMCC was not included in some of these conversations. But as I came in and I always had this big dream of involving not only the Bay Mills Indian Community, but the surrounding communities as well. And it always just takes one person to start asking the questions and ask, well, how come this person or this organization is not brought into this conversation and just making those phone calls to do so? 

And just recently, you know, we hosted our first Tri-County ISD meeting here where all of the superintendents, I think there's 27 superintendents, we hosted it here at BMCC for two things. First of all, it's just to show off our campus. Secondly, just to bring everybody together. And the only requirement that I had that day is that when we paid for lunch and hosted lunches that if I can bring my department chairs in, to sit down with the superintendents to really explain the program. But you know, one of the things that really came to light to us that a number of these superintendents asked, well, we can't send our students here because you guys are a private school. And I said, no, no, no. They said, you only allow tribal students here. I said, most of our students are tribal, but we do have a lot of non-native students or non-tribal students come to school because we're an open institution. And that's some resources that we provide. And they said, we treat everybody exactly the same as they come through the door. We make sure that everybody has the resources.

But you know, some of the things that are being brought into the conversation just in Chippewa County, the county that BMCC resides in, is that we're getting included with conversations with the Chamber of Commerce in Sault Ste. Marie, the Chippewa County Economic Development Corporation, and so on. So they're asking for our input from a tribal perspective and maybe some potential impacts that it may have on tribal communities as well. And just building out that complete network to where we can, you know, share what not only Bay Mills Community College, but even Bay Mills Indian Community has to provide as guidance on how to proceed with some of these new programs that's coming into our area for economic development and so on. 

But you know, what it is really too is that bringing on faculty and staff that are truly dedicated to the mission at our college, but not only that, these are folks who want to make impacts in their communities where they reside as well. And for them to do that and share their professional and personal views on things just to help bring the entire community. I think that's gonna help. And overall, as far as certain Bay Mills community directly, it's just the amount of resources, whatever we provide here for our students, it's open to the community, not only to Bay Mills community, but also the surrounding communities as well. We have a number of residents that live in the next town close to us, Brimley. And I say Brimley, even though Bay Mills Community College is in Brimley, but we just call it as Bay Mills instead of Brimley. Just that they're reaching out more and we're getting more participation from Indigenous folks who live outside of the community, but also non-Indigenous folks who come in who want to learn more too. So just being able to provide that service across the board, it's been great. But again, as I say, it really comes down to the fantastic faculty, staff, and our students that come to our institutions to help share this message and help provide this expertise as well too.

Justina Wilhelm: President Bedell, you bring up a good point about being a public institution and welcoming all students. That makes me think about our community. We have a very diverse community in Alaska. And also in our community, we have a high Pacific Islander, Black, there's so many different cultures. And I recently reviewed some student essays to go to the American Indian Higher Education Student Conference and to see some of our students who are not indigenous from Alaska, who came from California, I think, when we had one student for them to share how their culture may be different, but they feel welcomed and making sure that we're inclusive to all students who choose to attend Iḷisaġvik and tribal colleges. And I think that's such a great, great to hear from our students in that aspect.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Yeah, I think you both brought up an important piece. There are states that actually provide tribal colleges non-beneficiary funding because, you know, so often our funding is based on our ISC, our Indian Student Count. But the institutions are still providing an education to non-enrolled students. And so there's always this sort of gap in the funding because of the number of students we must service, but only receiving the funding for the students that are federally enrolled in a federally recognized tribe.

So my question kind of goes with how are your respective states supportive? I'm in the Dakotas, North Dakota has non-beneficiary funding, South Dakota does not. We have many states that have some of the similar issues. How do you feel the support is within your respective states? And what is some advocacy that others could provide in this area for tribal colleges knowing that we are servicing more than just our own students.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Well, I can take this one first because it's actually fresh on my mind because I have to go to Lansing on Wednesday and Thursday of next week to meet with state legislators to advocate on behalf of Bay Mills Community College. So right currently right now the state does not provide any type of support as far as monetary support goes for any of the tribal colleges located in Michigan. One of the things that happened recently, and this probably took about 10 years before I came on board, is that the tribal colleges in Michigan were recently allowed to join the Michigan Community College Association. And the Michigan Community College Association is a state organization that brings the 28 community colleges together to where they can talk about, advocate on behalf of the state community colleges, where they can talk legislation and so on. But with the inclusion of tribal colleges now, not only did we are able to access some of the resources that is provided by this agency, but we get to meet with our colleagues, our peers across the state to bring home some ideas and actually use that as a platform to advocate more for tribal colleges as well. 

And just working with various state departments now, since we've joined the association now, we have a little bit more opportunity to pursue some funding that grant funding from the state because we become more aware of the grant funding now and so we put our grant writers on it to see if we can get some funding to support that but one of the things that I've been working on for the last four years is to get some funding for our non-native students because right now if I break down our percentage between non-natives and native students we're at 64% of Native student count and the rest is non-Native students. And we are also the only community college in the Eastern Upper Peninsula. So with that, we of course open our doors, but charging the low tuition rate that we charge really is not going to allow us to expand our program and without other fundraising activities and so on. 

So I'm hoping that what the advocacy from what I'm doing in Lansing next week and where any other time that I gotta go down there, I'm hoping that one day that they're gonna realize the benefit that the tribal colleges has to their communities, not only to the communities, but to the surrounding non-indigenous communities that are around them to say, hey, this is a really viable option for students to go to, particularly students who want to just go in for CTE programming instead of, you know, tradition, academics, and so on. But you know, it's just really just making your voice heard. I'm going to put it in plain English here, just really being a pain in their sides. Just to know that yes, the tribal colleges here, we're going to be here, we're going to remain here, and we would certainly love to have more support from our legislation and the state. 

I think if that happens, or if it ever does happen, it's going to really just bring all of the higher education institutions, community college, should say together to where we can complete the one common thing that we're all here for is to build our students and build our communities as well. You know, outside of that, I'm hoping maybe next year at this time, if we have a conversation, whether we're in DC or something like that, I can say, hey, you know, the state has included us in their education budget, but we'll see. It just takes a lot of meetings and, and really just telling the story of our students, just like we do in DC, but also telling the story of how we impact the, the surrounding communities that we serve here as well.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I love that. I thought I was going to have to like bleep out a cuss word or something. The way you made it sound like you're going to say it sound wrong.

Dr. Duane Bedell: If this is off record, it kind of went in my mind, but I didn't speak it.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: So you have a lot of willpower. I probably would have slipped up.

Justina Wilhelm: Yeah. So for the state of Alaska, we don't receive much funding from our state. We do receive a small amount for our CTE, our technical vocational education programming. So we have some of those fundings, but as far as overall state support, that's something that we could do better at. Even if you look at our technical, vocational education funding, there's a breakdown of about six technical programs within Alaska. And Iḷisaġvik as the tribal college, it has the lowest percent. So I believe everyone had six percent and then Iḷisaġvik had 3%.

So that's something that when we're advocating that we want to be at that same level. We are located on the North Slope of Alaska, but we have students all throughout Alaska from the Metlakatla to the St. Paul Aleutian chain. We have distance students and that was one great thing before COVID is we all of our academic programming we were able to offer via distance. So when that happened, it was easy for us to maneuver through, but definitely areas for us to grow within our state. 

On the federal side, we're able to be supported through our senators with the Congressional Direct Spending Funds, the Earmark. So that's something that is helpful for us to support our funding and to really think outside of the box, we offer one bachelor's degree in about 12 AA degrees. So looking at synergies within our state, through the University of Alaska systems, via University of Alaska Fairbanks or University of Alaska Anchorage, we're able to create articulation agreements where students could start off with us, their certificates, to their AAs, and then build upon to get them to those bachelor's programming, which seems to be helpful for our students so that they could to remain home and then travel when they needed, or hopefully they'll be able to complete that via distance.

We have a teacher education program that we're currently working to support our paraprofessionals all the way through to pursue their BA degrees. So building on synergy. So if the funding is not there, we'll all put our heads together to say, okay, so what can we do to help our students succeed and proceed with that? And then also with our tribes to get the tribal support. So that's another great opportunity where our college is able to utilize funding for a lot of workforce development, the CEUs, those types of, we just talked about a boiler maintenance class. Those things to keep our communities heating, the electricians to keep our lights on, so very critical for our communities.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Once you get those two classes developed or curriculum developed, would you mind sharing that?

Justina Wilhelm: Absolutely.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Perfect.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Yeah, I would love to learn more about that because that's something that we've been talking about here as well, but I just don't have the expertise in that. So, and how to design one of those types of curriculum. So, Amber, do you have anything you want to ask?

Amber Morseau: Yeah. So, you know, as you had talked about, as far as like community building and then also, you know, the role that your non-Indigenous students have in the TC community and the role that your faculty members also have in the community. How do tribal colleges, in your opinion, how do tribal colleges contribute to that global community, right? The global citizenship. I know one of the things that we're very proud of that we talk about with our tribal colleges is really doing things in a good way, right? Being good relatives and making sure that that is something that we kind of emulate through all of our programs and is something that is naturally ingrained into the tribal college culture. Could you speak to that a little bit? So for non-Indigenous students and faculty? Kind of just this like general idea of global citizenship, like as your students graduate from the tribal college, how do your students that are graduating really contribute to making the world a better place?

Justina Wilhelm: Okay. I think that's just such a natural next step. I think it's hard to kind of say, okay, we have this student who's taking this class and they graduate and they receive this certificate or degree. I think it goes back to looking at the student holistically, how you have the community, the family, the community, the region, focusing on homegrown workforce, I think is something that I think about. We have Iñupiaq values, if you were to go to our Iḷisaġvik website, which I believe they're probably similar across all of our communities of just the basics of sharing, humility, cooperation, compassion, spirituality. All of those things, I think, create to that global community of just being a successful, positive citizen that will come back and enter into our community. 

Living in a community where it's rural and we're in the Arctic and people don't want to live here, getting faculty is an issue. And this is who we are, 40 below weather, wind. No milk on the shelves. These are just normal things that we're used to and it's something that growing up there, you're just used to dealing with it where maybe some people who aren't familiar with it, it could be tough on them. Darkness for 60 days and seeing no sunshine. 

So thinking about being good relatives and working together, I think I'll frame this to maybe some of our faculty or staff who are not from our communities, being a good relative and helping to welcome them and maybe not saying you need to learn our culture or you need to do this, do that, switching it to a mindset where here's a gift, come with me, here are a group of people, we're gonna, there's this community event, please join us and sit with us so that it's not awkward or we're just saying go to this thing and sit there by yourself and not be familiar with what's going on. 

So I think being a good relative always is just, you know, Duane's my brother. If you're here, come and we'll all go do this together and I'll teach you and I'll show you. You know, just like we're talking today about, hey, when you get that resource, could you share that? Or I'm struggling with this. I think it's just being open and feeling safe to ask to share what you're struggling with or share the successes and what you're doing good and being willing to share the good and the bad is so important.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Those are all great, great, great words too, you know, and I really appreciate that. And I'll start with, you know, the relationship that we have with our colleagues across the tribal colleges. President Wilhelm and I have, you know, reflected on that before taking ideas from President Pattea or myself and vice versa, getting ideas from President Wilhelm. And so it's just being willing, like you said, just to have that open mind, share your successes, talk about your failures, and maybe strategize together on how we can make each other more successful. 

And with this, as our students are leaving our doors, that's something that you try to instill into them. It doesn't matter if they're here from the local community or outside communities, but while we have them here, if we can think, help think that it's not only about you as the student, it's about you and the impact that you're gonna have on your community based on some of the decisions that you may make, based on some of the directions of your professional career and so on. What kind of impact is that gonna have for, I guess you can say the greater world? And how can you make your lasting mark not on your community, but society as a whole? 

And some of the things that we get, I'll say it too, is that, you know we do get some students that, or even professionals that come in, it's all about them. But by the time that they leave our doors, we open up that whole mindset to say, it's not about you as an individual. It goes back to that same saying, it takes a community to raise a child. The same exact thing. So, you know, one of the things, and President Wilhelm touched on it, you know, if you teach them a little bit about humility, if you teach them how to be brave, how to be honest, how to provide the wisdom that they learned, always speak the truth, respect one another, and of course love each other. And that's the seven grandfather teachings that we incorporate. 

You know, if you can put that into your culture at the school, not only say it on paper, but practice that. Some way or form, it's going to eventually rub off of me, President Wilhelm, onto our staff, onto our faculty, onto our students. And hopefully they can take that and go out and just be better citizens in their communities, wherever they may end up, and maybe impact other folks to help them realize, hey, you know, there's, the world's a lot bigger than just being you, I guess you can say. 

And I think, you know, as tribal college leaders, we embodied that already. And we realized that because we, because I know for me, for myself, I lived that when I was younger, you know, being an arrogant, young 19-20 year old saying, you know, it's all about me, bringing the work experiences, the teachings that I was taught and just, you know, really realizing that there's an opportunity here to provide resources and provide guidance for these folks to go on and make the world a lot better place. So.

Justina Wilhelm: Yeah. One of our elders, he passed away last year, but he's known, his quote was mentioned this past week that he says, it doesn't matter. As long as the job gets done, it doesn't matter who gets the credit, just get the job done.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Absolutely. I think what Amber asked and what you touched on is really important, the ethnocentrism of like going into another community and perceiving it from your own lens, what you think should be right. And I think that's interesting that you have a pretty large number of Native students or non-tribal community members. And I often think about the time I went and even though I am an Indigenous woman and multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-cultural family, I went to stay with the Sami people in Norway and Finland and they were experiencing nightless nights. And I had like a whole panic attack by the 10th day. I was like, I can't, I can't do it. I can't live like this. I need it to be dark. And so I thought I was above that, right? Because I came from all these different pieces. What advice do you give to someone, you know you're creating these really awesome humans and they're going to go out into the world and have this global impact that Amber mentioned. You know, those that are not from your tribal community, have you experienced some of that sort of ethnocentrism that you have to spend time helping them acclimate to your culture and taking, you know, a look at everything from the way you just all explained it, that we're all relatives and we all have different perspectives.

Dr. Duane Bedell: You know, for the most part, it's really taken away the stereotype of being Native American or going into an indigenous community. And just showing as soon as folks come through the door and start gaining the campus experiences that it's open. And there are things that we can learn and that you can learn from us, but just combining all of those together to really just open up the mindset. Unfortunately, yeah, we have run into that too where it's just that single mindset or the unwillingness to adapt to or learn a little bit about the culture. But over time, if you take the slow approach to it and just have just conversations that don't really focus on the teachings, but do it in another roundabout way or another way that that's really gonna hit home to them. I think that's opened up a lot of doors for our students anyways. 

And it had them go away with an understanding about, you know, that Native Americans, they really truly, you know, involve the entire community. And that's just the way of life. And it's just not something that's said but it's the way that they practice. And at the same time, it's taken away all of the, I would say Hollywood stereotypes, you know, and just saying that, you know, we're really, aren't those people that's portrayed in Hollywood oftentimes, you know? And if you get to know us, you're going to realize that it doesn't matter what ethnic background that you come from, we're going to treat you as respectful as we can. We're going to include you into everything. And our hope is that you leave our doors doing the same exact thing.

Justina Wilhelm: I agree. And I think a lot is just seeing it, feeling it, sharing the stories and just taking time to have those safe spaces. If somebody could truly feel it, then it's easy. It'll come natural.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I love that. Before I pass it back off to Amber for the final question, I want to hear what you envision for the next, the second circle of the tribal college movement, we had the first 50 years, amazing foundations built for both AIHEC and all of the tribal colleges and universities. What are we going to look forward to for you all in the next 50 years?

Dr. Duane Bedell: That's a tough question because I think that, you know, in the first 50 years has been really, really successful and has had a large impact on the communities where the tribal colleges are. But just being able to continue the growth of both AIHEC and the tribal colleges, but also just to bring all of the tribal colleges together through AIHEC or even just outside of passing on conversations, following each other on social media, not being afraid to ask those questions. I think if we come together and really share what has been successful in the last 50 years for us, but just to come up with a plan to really see how we can expand and how we can continue to push ourselves, but also not be afraid to challenge ourselves as tribal colleges and as AIHEC to move forward, just to make sure that the tribal college movement does not ever die or become a second thought, but it should be first and primary, first and primary thought for all tribal colleges across the nation. 

You know realistically too I would love to see more tribal colleges and other tribal nations as well. I know that you know we we try to reach out to as many folks as we can but sometimes you know there are some communities that aren't I would say aren't as connected as some other communities and if they can have that local resource and with the help maybe with AIHEC and and and leaders from the other tribal colleges maybe we can develop that as well so that way we can ensure that all indigenous communities have that avenue to be successful through education or through resources that are provided by tribal colleges as well. 

Do agree?

Justina Wilhelm: Yeah, so if the sky is the limit and 50 years from now, I think, you know, echoing what President Bedell shared with just strengthening who we are as AIHEC, who we are as tribal colleges. As one of our students that recently shared at the AIHEC legislative summit, you know, she said she wants to be a teacher and she wants her students to see Native faces in the classroom and to see our Indigenous people in those positions, in our faculty positions, in our administrative positions, across our communities who are going to be there and stay there in its home and seeing those familiar faces. And hopefully, you know, we continue to strengthen AIHEC and all of our inter-tribal college communications and resources and sharing and just making ourself well known. And yeah, I think there's so much possibilities out there. And what was it at the AIHEC summit? They said with the current federal representatives, there's over 80 Native American positions that were communicated. I loved hearing that.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Yeah, that was really good. So, and you know, just to follow up on that too, right now, you know, as we all come together as AIHEC and the tribal colleges, you know, one of the things that I'm most proud of, and I hope that really continues to really build as we continue on, is that we're all relatives. We all treat each other as like brothers and sisters. And I think with that closeness that we have together with the AIHEC staff and the tribal college presidents, and even some of our tribal college staff members, you know, I bring a few of my executives with me when we go to these board meetings and that's the one thing that they said is that, so you guys are really close and that you guys always have the great conversations with each other. 

But at the same time, they also say that I know that sometimes there's are difficult conversations, but in any place of business or any place, any community, you do have the great conversations. You do have the difficult conversations, but it's just how we treat each other afterwards. And just remembering that we're still family. We still are. We do the same exact thing and make sure that our communities are successful. And again, you know, that's what I hope to see in 50 years is that the closeness that we have and the ability to have those great conversations, but also the courage to have those difficult conversations, but still just to be able to move past that point to solve an issue that may come up as well.

Justina Wilhelm: Something else we didn't hit on today, but is appreciative to the American Indian College Fund for their financial support to indigenous and non-indigenous students. I think that's a great partnership and support that we have as tribal colleges.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I agree. Yes, they will be on with my team for the very final episode to this series. So we will be talking about AIHEC and AICF partnership that brought a total of $40 million that will be going to the TCUs for transformation and enrollment management planning. So yes, a huge shout out to our sister org, AICF. 

Well, we just had a really good conversation. I really enjoy speaking with both of you anytime I see you. And we're gonna get to see each other in March shortly at the student conference. So hopefully you are both going. But yeah, great conversation. This will be aired soon and everyone can experience more episodes highlighting all of our amazing TCU presidents. You could check that out on my LinkedIn page or go to edupexperience.com so you can hear from President Wilhelm and President Bedell. Amber, if you want to say any closing remarks, we can hand it off to you.

Amber Morseau: I just want to say, Chi-Miigwech, many thanks for both of you being on this podcast with us. It was great interviewing with you today. And thank you very much for sharing in your experience and a little bit about your colleges.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Thank you. Thank you.

Justina Wilhelm: Thank you. Just can I give one shout out though?

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Of course.

Justina Wilhelm: I have to do this, but I just want to congratulate Ilisagvik College on being selected as a leader college at ATD. And one thing that I will say is that it was great being at the Achieving the Dream conference this year to see the representation from the tribal colleges. A number of tribal colleges that received this designation. What was fantastic about it. It was just the network of community college and to receive that designation really just showcases the work that we all do. So it's phenomenal. It was phenomenal to be there. So again, congratulations.

Dr. Duane Bedell: Congratulations to your college as well.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: Yeah, I think it was UTTC, Little Priest, ourselves. I think was that it? Was there any other TCUs?

Justina Wilhelm: One more TCU, but I can't recall.

Dr. Erica J. Moore: I also. So I'm going to apologize to them and do a special shout out next episode. All right. And I promised Joe I'd do my final closing of my friends and relative. You've just been ed upped.