852: Belonging: A Million Dollar Mission - with Dr. Angel Reyna, President, Madera Community College

Joe Sallustio: Welcome back everybody. It's your time to EdUp on the EdUp Experience podcast where we make education your business. And today is a humbling day, I would say, for all of us. It's not often, well, it's actually pretty often, but in this world of artificial intelligence and advancements in technology, we still are humbled by technology every single day. When we don't plug something in, which I did recently, I have a coffee warmer that I couldn't figure out this morning why it could not work. And it's not working and my coffee's getting cold. And I realized I had kicked out the plug, but only after 20 minutes of trying to figure out and doing internet searches of why the coffee warmer might not work. So I'm not the only one though that has tech problems. Lots of us do. It just reminds you that we're all human. We all got to figure things out as we go along. 

And somebody that I know that figures things out and I found out something about him today as he is a former triathlete. I don't know if he was any good or not, but he was a former triathlete. Ladies and gentlemen, my guest cohost today, you know him, he's Douglas Carlson. He's head of partnerships at Lead Squared. Douglas, welcome back.

Douglas Carlson: Thanks for having me. I think once a triathlete, always a triathlete. You know, former is the right way to say it. Is it to win the race or to finish the race as a triathlete?

Douglas Carlson: It really goes through sort of the waves. When you start out, it is just about getting across the finish line. And that's the hero moment. And as you do a few more of those, you start competing against yourself. When you're truly a pro, you're not going to finish first. So you're really competing against your own time.

Joe Sallustio: Yeah. So when you say the word triathlete or triathlon, just... This is lunacy. I can't understand how somebody would want to do that. But you know what, Douglas? To each their own, to each their own. Good for you, man. I bet that kept you in pretty good shape.

Douglas Carlson: Yeah, thank you. It was a lot of fun. So I still try to get out for a couple of the sports from time to time. It is important in higher education to take your moments, too. We all have to have a way to get all that energy out, to keep ourselves healthy. And particularly as a college and university president, it's a tough job. And presidents today, they got to find an outlet. We're to find out about our guest's outlet or outlets today when we talked to him.

Joe Sallustio: Let's get him on the microphone. Ladies and gentlemen, he is Dr. Angel Reyna. He is the president at Madera Community College of Madera. I got to say it with a rolling R. 

Dr. Angel Reyna: I think yes, and you did that well Joe and thank you for having me on the show Douglas as well. Pleasure to meet you both. Yes, so I'm actually approaching five years at Madera Community College as a president. May 20th I'll be celebrating that anniversary. And I actually started my community college experience in the state of Washington. So when I, I never imagined leaving the state of Washington in terms of career-wise, professional, personal. I've enjoyed my time in Washington state, but I'll tell you when I came to California, I'm loving it here. There's just so much to do. Surprise.

Joe Sallustio: Yeah, exactly. Right. And so much good food as well. Another surprise there.

Dr. Angel Reyna: But it's just and it's beautiful. So I've been enjoying it. And more importantly, like what you mentioned, you know, the great work that we do, but also the challenges, you know, CEOs these days. So we did a survey in the state of California on community college presidents in terms of tenure. Do you want to take a guess of what that tenure duration is longevity?

Joe Sallustio: So is this in the state of California or nationwide?

Dr. Angel Reyna: State of California. Douglas, I'm gonna give you as the guest co-host I'm giving you first crack and then I'm gonna see if I like your answer to give a better one.

Douglas Carlson: Oh, you're have Price is Right rules. I love it. My guess based upon kind of the context is seven years or less.

Joe Sallustio: I'm going like two and a half years.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Wow, so Joe you're like spot-on. It was 2.3.

Joe Sallustio: Oh my goodness.

Dr. Angel Reyna: So yeah, you, you, you nailed it.

Joe Sallustio: I had no idea, but I know, but I figured it was under three because it's getting to that. I've talked to so many presidents, getting to that third year is, it's a struggle to get to that third year. You've got to go through two years of tremendous change and trust building and so on. And many people don't make it through that first two years because of various reasons. So I figured it was probably between two and three years. So just went halfway.

Dr. Angel Reyna: And so there's a lot of challenges to your point, right? You've interviewed a lot of other folks. You have that knowledge and background with social media, with COVID, you know, and that's kind of where I entered. I had 10 months in when COVID hit, which to me, I felt like was a benefit because I actually got to see the faculty, staff and students for 10 months versus some of the presidents that jumped in never meeting their interview committee, never meeting students in person for like at least a year, depending when they jumped in. I can't even imagine how challenging that would be to then when people started coming back, how you establish those relationships, because I'm very relational. So without having that, it's difficult to navigate because as you mentioned, Joe, the trust piece is key.

Joe Sallustio: Tell us a little bit about Madera. How many students, where exactly are you located? Give us the two minute elevator.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, so we're located in the Central Valley of California, about 20 minutes north of Fresno, California. So when I arrived in May of 2019, we were a center. We hadn't become a college yet.

Joe Sallustio: Oh, really?

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, we were a center of our sister, of our mother institution that became our sister college within our district. And at the time we had 7,400 students. I was hired specifically to take it through accreditation. So I became the first campus president, the first ever college president. We became officially a college in July of 2020, which we know what was happening. COVID was still in the midst of that. But our enrollment, you know, was counter to the narrative across the nation. Our enrollment continued to grow in terms of headcount. And then we were pleasantly surprised, but we were doing a lot of intentional work in terms of community outreach. And so from that point, when I first started to now, this academic year, we've grown by 3000 students. So we're at about 10,400. So we just cracked 10,000 this year. And our FTE is 3000. So as a new college, we're doing relatively well.

But yeah, and so we're really excited. We're predominantly Hispanic serving institution. 67% of our students are Hispanic, Latinx identified with the second largest being white, Asian, then black African-American, and then Native American indigenous folks. So yeah, we're pretty diverse, but predominantly Hispanic.

Joe Sallustio: Amazing. One quick, one more quick follow up and then Douglas, I'll pass it to you. I was reading a little bit about your story on LinkedIn and you came over when you're five years old, came from, I think Mexico when you were five and you worked, man. Like I saw your background. I was like, man, he was working as he grew up. I'm assuming first gen college student. This must mean so much to you to be leading an institution, to go beyond the average, to be the first president of this institution. I mean, what a transformative experience you had through higher ed and in higher ed when we're at a very funny time in higher ed when a lot of people are shrugging their shoulders saying, you know, I'm not doing it or it's not worth it or I don't see the value. Can you talk about your personal journey into and through higher ed and what your belief is about the value of higher ed?

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, and thank you for that question. So yeah, I migrated to the US, you were close, at the age of four. You know, at that point, that's 20% of my life. So I'm just acknowledging that right at that point, but I'm the youngest of seven. And so we migrated to the United States and Washington state, as I mentioned, that's where I started. And I was six years old. You know, I'm not big right now. And so I was a tiny little kid. And so my parents just had me moving the water around while they were working in the asparagus. And my older siblings were working and I got bored because it was just me. And so for me, I was like, you know what? So there's this knife that you use in the asparagus. You hold it and then you have to put a bucket and a belt. So they're like, it's too heavy for you because as you start putting the asparagus in there, kind of like, you know, it's too much.

Joe Sallustio: They just said, Yikes.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, exactly. So I grabbed the knife and I just kept cutting, cutting. And then they just said, you know what? You're ready to go. They just didn't give me the bucket because I would, you know, I wouldn't be able to move. And I tell folks if I would have known what I did to myself, I probably wouldn't have. I don't know, because I've never stopped working since. Right. Since I was six.

Um, but you know, boredom has been something that has pushed me to do great work because, um, I just can't stand in the sidelines. I feel like I need to make a change and help others. But it, and as we, know, uh, got older and started attending school and when the harvest would come around, especially around April, so around this time, um, when the asparagus would start, I remember we'd get up at three 30 in the morning. We'd go to work. We would actually use our car to light up the asparagus field until the sun came out so we could get a head start on the day. Yeah, and it's around seven in the morning. I'm trying to remember because you know as you get farther out some of the details, you know, you forget, but it was around 7 a.m. or 7:30. Then we'd go to our car and we'd change. We wouldn't shower because there's no showers out in the field. So we'd change, catch the bus, go to school, go to the restroom, wash our hands.

And then, you know, spend the whole day in class. And so for me, and I tell other students when I engage with them and I share my story, it made me appreciate the value of education for a couple of things. I knew that I didn't want to work out in the fields all my life. It's hard work. Much respect to all the people that can do it. It's very, very difficult work. And I did it up until the age of 18, until I went to Washington State University. But I tell them, you know, a couple of things. I knew that education was a pathway out. And I always tell them, look, look, like what are you doing right now physically as I'm talking to you? Like sitting down. OK, now do you have to worry if it's raining or hot? No, I said, are you sitting next to your friends? Yes. And I go, where do you want? Right. So for me, when I was in the classroom, I was with my friends. I never worried about the weather and I was resting. Right. And I was socializing and enjoying my youth, but so I share, you there's a lot of pluses to education and it's transformed my life. And so I, you know, I share the transformation, you know, Joe, as you asked me from start to where I'm at. And I actually became an elected official as well in the town that I grew up in. I was a council member and then a mayor for three and a half of the four years, because I got a dean position. So I had to relocate.

That also shaped me in terms of my perspective. And at the time I was also a director at a community college. So was kind of a middle manager and a CEO at the same time. And I knew where I wanted to be, which was a CEO. So then I continued the path forward to being a college president, which I am now.

Joe Sallustio: I like your style. Go ahead, Douglas.

Douglas Carlson: Well, sir, well, thank you. I know I'm really happy to have heard the story from you specifically. It's one thing to read about it, it's another thing to actually have you tell it. So thanks for sharing that. I'm also curious to hear a little bit about this kind of the story of, and are you still the, is that you still hold the monitor of newest community college? 

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, the most recent Community College in California is another opened. No, it's correct. We're still the newest Community College in the state of California. We're the 116th.

Douglas Carlson: Got it perfect. We have one. And I'm curious, and I think I have a sense for the answer, but I'd love to hear it from you is, where was the need to go from a center to a full community college? And it was, I assume it was sort of demand from, you know, from where the location is, but I'd love to hear a little bit more about kind of that journey.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, that's a great question, Douglas. So, and this need and desire to move from a center to a college predated me. There had been conversations within the district. We're part of State Center Community College District, which five years before we became a college, Clovis Community College became the third. So if we go back 10 years, State Center Community College District only had two colleges, which was Fresno City and Reedley College. So then there was conversations that Madera would become the next community college. But with Clovis growing so much and probably politics, I wasn't there. They moved forward and advanced Clovis as the third college. And so when I arrived in Madera County has no higher education institution in the whole county. And that was one of the reasons why the educational attainment at the time when I came in was ranked 55th out of 59 counties in California. So the whole Central Valley, the educational attainment level is low. And so there was, those were the driving forces to have a community college, a higher education institution in Madera County. And so when I arrived, the community was, I showed up and I said, Hey, I'm going to work on this. We're going to take it to college status. They, and some of them would tell me straight up, they say, we've been hearing this for years.

And so when we were starting to move in that path and I could see it happening because I started doing some of this work when I was in Washington state when I knew I was coming down here. I zeroed in on the accreditation process who I needed to talk to you, etc. So I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. But I also, you know, didn't want to promise something that was out of my control, right? Because there's third party, the accrediting body and then the Board of Governors for the state of California also had to approve us.

Douglas Carlson: Well, and can you tell me a little bit more about we talked a little bit about the population you serve. Can you also talk a little bit about the job infrastructure that you're serving as well? You know, historically, at least what I'm familiar with is like a very agricultural piece in the Central Valley, but that has certainly changed over the last even five or 10 years. So curious where you're serving there in the community.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, and it's still a lot of ag. Our campus is physically surrounded by ag, which I love and I tell folks, you know, for me as I drive in literally on the right side orchards on the left side is the campus. And I tell it's just like my life, right? I could see both sides of my life growing up in the fields and then where I'm at right now. But yes, ag is still dominant. Looking at issues around water issues because, you know, the droughts that have happened over the years, the last two years we've actually had a healthy amount of rain, but it doesn't overcome, you know, like a decade worth of drought. Manufacturing as well is big logistics with so many, you know, semi trucks up and down the 99, because we're right in the heart of, you know, California and with ag, you know, the central Valley feeds the world. So we're moving commerce up and down the 99. And so we have a truck driving program that we established as soon as I came in, we were the first ones in our district to have that program. It's just bustling and you know, growing there, but also health care because we all know, you know, all of us have health needs. And so what happened about, I want to say 15 months ago or so, and you may or may not be aware, Madera Community Hospital shut down because they couldn't make their payroll because of their reimbursement and then the traveling nurses because of COVID, they were making so much money that they just couldn't afford to operate. And so that impacted our nursing program because our students lost their clinical site and we lost our adjunct faculty because, you know, they were full-time employees at Madera Community Hospital. And when that happened, they said, hey, I got to go look for a full-time job. I can't, you know, focus on this. But, you know, so there's some challenges, but there's also a tremendous amount of opportunity for us to grow our healthcare programs on our campus.

Douglas Carlson: Well, and very clearly from our conversation already growing the campus to 10,000 enrollments, 3,000 over the last few years, you're doing something right. Obviously there's the demand for education. Can you tell us a little bit about that growth and that journey? That's, it's an interesting, like kind of zoom out and take the nationwide trend is like the last few years, the community college systems have had trouble enrolling and trouble graduating. And it seems like that's not the case at Madera.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah. And so there's a couple of reasons for that. One of the things, you know, for me, and I'll just share my lived experience. I didn't see another person that looked like me, that was a teacher or in a position of authority until I was getting my masters. And that validated me being there because I, I honestly felt like I didn't belong in education. And I do believe that me looking like and having a shared lived experience with our students has made a difference because I connect with the community, both at the political level with the city council and the board supervisors, but also with the K-12 partners. And, you know, that same shared lived perspective. I have a general understanding of, you know, what do we need to help our students feel more comfortable and welcome on our campus?

Joe Sallustio: Nailed it.

Dr. Angel Reyna: And so we make decisions based on some of those things that our first generation students might not understand about higher education. And we started going to the community. So we started going to flea markets because we knew that's where the community was. Like, why have them come to us and feel unwelcome and not comfortable? Let's go to them and where they were at. And that was very successful for us. We also started doing some sessions in Spanish with parents because the parents in the Hispanic Latinx community are very important towards pushing their children to education and the trust and having that knowledge. So we started doing some of that with financial aid, et cetera, and just having them welcome. And then we worked with this program that's a migrant education program. They came and met me as soon as I arrived and they said, hey, this is the student population we serve. And 90% of them go to your college.

And I asked them, do we do anything with you all? Do we have like, you know, a weekend thing or make the students feel welcome? Like, no, well, let's do it. So we did that probably a few months after I arrived, we had 200 students show up and then then COVID hit. So we paused that for a while and restarted it last year again. And we had a great turnout, but it's a lot of those intentional partnerships that helped us tremendously.

And I don't know if you both are aware, but we won the Lumina million dollar challenge.

Joe Sallustio: Tell them like it is.

Dr. Angel Reyna: In the focal point of that. And this was a national competition. We beat out schools from all over the nation. And the focal point was the sense of belonging. But we call it in Spanish, pertenecero, the sense of belonging. And we're using those components within the campus. And I can share some of those pieces that we're doing when you want me to.

Joe Sallustio: Are you kidding me? You should talk about that because I interviewed... if I get their names, I'll have to look them up. But I interviewed the representatives from the foundation as the contest was happening and when they announced the winner. I can't, I'll have to go back and get their names. Was it Shauna and Mary?

Dr. Angel Reyna: Absolutely was. Yep. Shauna and Mary. Yep.

Joe Sallustio: And they came on to talk about the contest itself and then came on to announce the winner, you. And now I'm putting all the dots together. This was a big, big, big deal. That million dollar challenge. Can you talk about how transformational that's been to Madera?

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah. And you know, when we became a finalist, I think two years ago in April, when they were a top 10 finalists, they guaranteed the top 10 finalists, a hundred thousand. The winner gets a million. Um, for us, when they interviewed us in that second round, I remember Mary and Shauna were in the room and some of our folks. And I told them straight up, I told them, look, we're going to do this work regardless if we win or not, you're just going to accelerate. And I was just very straightforward because we didn't want to not be who we are with them. Tell them like it is. We're going to do it. And so when we were awarded the million dollars, we were already trying to develop the sense of belonging. But one of them was murals on our campus that reflected our students and just to add more life to the campus. So it just felt more welcoming. The other was to transform a space because we have a new facility now that just opened up in the fall to develop a multicultural center where students felt welcomed and they could come and also develop a veteran center because we didn't have a center for our veterans and we really want to serve them better. And the other thing was to have open houses. So we've had two open houses where we, on a weekend we open up and we have our community come out, free food, our faculty and staff highlight their programs. It just, it's almost like saying, Hey, our doors open, come and visit us and come and see what we're doing. And then the third and more important pieces are branding and we're still working on that. You know, what, what do you, what feel do you get from the college when you hear about Madera Community College? And those are some of the things that we're still working through as well. But we're really excited on finalizing this because the murals just started about a week ago and they're coming fast and they're just and everybody's like super excited. We have faculty and staff. They're like, wow, this is so beautiful. And it's going to transform the campus. So we're excited.

Douglas Carlson: That's incredible. And I think the thing that resonates with me most about that is it'll be unique to every school, but it kind of sounds like your playbook could be taught elsewhere as well. So I'd be curious on your thoughts on if another community college is struggling to figure out who they are, maybe address their population, or maybe running into similar headwinds that you had. What would you take from your playbook, or what advice would you give to them?

Dr. Angel Reyna: I think getting to know the community you serve is paramount. I know when we come in as CEOs, we're like, there's so many things you have to manage and navigate. That's why I shared I was very intentional and I'll take a step back. I was very intentional to select a community college where I wanted to be a president because I wanted to be somewhere where I could represent and reflect the students that I serve for a couple reasons. Because you know, I never had that growing up and I saw the importance when I did. But it also that shared lived experience also helps inform the decisions that I make and the connection to the community was easier. I'm not saying it's easy, but it was easier because I could relate. And having a team around you that buys into a student-centered approach, right? It's not about me, it's not about my career. It is indirectly, if you do the work well, your career will take off, versus, I'm just gonna focus on me, professional development, what can I do? And all those things are important. But the other ingredient here, you know, to where I asked Joe, what's the longevity of a CEO, you can't do much if you're already looking to get out or being pushed out when you haven't even completed two years or about to complete two years, right? It's fuzzy math. You're just now in survival mode versus on transformation mode. And so I think that's another key piece is having CEOs, whether it's, you know, you're committed to the institution. And I learned this when I became an Aspen fellow for the new presidents. The ones that had the most transformation in their career stayed seven years plus. And I remember a president that I worked for in Washington state, he had served for 30 years as president. He told me, said, you know how many years it takes for you to create transformation at a college, at least seven years. And I'm seeing that, right? Cause I'm completing five years and I'm starting to see some of the groundwork and the framework where you institutionalize things. And so when I interviewed this, how long are you going to stay here? And I said, you know, I'll look at least seven years, see how things go. And there's been opportunities here and there. But what I will tell you is that, you know, with California, 116 colleges, there's churn and there's opportunities elsewhere and you can't blame somebody to go from a president to a chancellor or get out, you know, but that is also an issue. It slows down the work of, you know, better serving your community because when you transition, then the community has to get to know the new person, etc, etc. So there, there's several factors within that, but it's committed commitment to community and students, I think are the key ingredients.

Joe Sallustio: You think, Angel, that talk about those ingredients? Can you talk about the people ingredient a bit because the many of the presidents that I speak to, especially in that first couple of years, are experiencing pushback from faculty. They've had, I talked to president recently who said he survived two assassination attempts in his 11 year tenure. And he goes, don't mean anybody tried to kill me, but they try to kill me professionally. You have faculty, you have administrators, you have students, stakeholders. Is there a cycle where maybe people, you've presented this vision, you're moving forward, you've got to get people on? And some people just aren't going to be on with that vision. So they've got to self-select out in order for you to hit that supercharged time. Can you talk, I'm making this up. I'm just saying I'm inferring that, but can you talk about the people part of that too and achieving what you want to achieve?

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah. And this kind of goes back to it, you know, how you started this off with the CEO and the wellness aspect of it. Because you know, people say some really nasty things and outrageous, believe it or not, you know, presidents are human too. And, you know, we feel some of those daggers, right? And over time you get numb to some of them, but not all of them because you're still human. Right. And so one of the things, and I think as you know, I've matured as a president and I'm not making this up, I remember one day I was just in my office and I was just reflecting and I was like, you know, this is kind of challenging, but it's also an opportunity. And then I just took a deep breath and I told myself, don't take it personal. And it helped me just saying that to myself. Don't take it personal, right? But it's hard not to when you're the face of the organization and you're on 24/7, there's the challenge of how do you separate the personal from a professional setting when you're the face of an institution. But I will say that, you know, having good relationships with faculty is very important. Having great relationships with our classified professionals is very important. And for me, what I do, you know, there's a hierarchy whether you like it or not in organizations. And community colleges are no different where you have kind of instructional faculty, the perception of folks, right? Instructional faculty, counseling faculty, then classified, right? And though that's kind of the tier. And what I've always tried to do is try to treat them equitably as much as possible, whether some people like it or not. I think it's important to say every key, every role in the institution is important because if we don't have our building services folks on our campus, nobody's ever going to turn on the light for us to have class.

Joe Sallustio: That's a fact. That's a fact.

Dr. Angel Reyna: And if the classroom isn't clean and you're a student, you're like, hey, this is gross. Why am I going to want to come to this campus? Right. And so a lot of those things matter. I've been very intentional to work with our folks to say, you've ever been to a restaurant where you go in and it looks good while you're trying to eat, but you go to the restroom and it's trash? You get that feeling of like, I'm not going to come back. And that's what I tell folks is like, imagine the campus as that restaurant, the restroom in the restaurant. If it looks nice, has a good feel, people are going to want to come back. People are going to say, this is a legit organization and community college that values me because they're giving me the things that I need. And it's been successful because they buy into it. And I also, you know, leading by example on the people aspect is very important. I would never ask somebody to do something I wouldn't do and they know that and I also try to provide balance with folks to say, you know I'm not gonna be messaging late in on the weekdays and on the weekends I enjoy your family because this is a marathon. It's not a sprint.

Joe Sallustio: That matters. Yeah, yeah. By the way Douglas back to you and then ask ask whatever you have then will close on Angel but I go to a restaurant, my wife and I go to restaurant and it's clean. And she goes in the bathroom and it's not clean. The first thing she'll say when she comes out and I would do the same as if their kitchen is even half as nasty as their bathroom. We do not want to eat here. So it's behind you immediately infer the worst because, because of a lack of attention. I think you're so right. That's such a good analogy. Douglas.

Douglas Carlson: I couldn't agree more. I think that that is so spot on. And it kind of in the same sports theme reminds me of the Lou Holtz quote as well, kind of going back to you as the face of organization. It's like, you're never as good as everyone tells you are when you win. And you're never as bad as they say you are when you lose. Like I just I love that quote, because it's just you know, get it. You kind of get it on both sides. But it's also nice to get the accolades too. And ultimately, Joe finished all this off. I'm curious, think about the community college system and especially the community college system in California is what do you think is the biggest opportunity for this system? And what are the things that are stumbling blocks? And that may be specific to your college or maybe specific to the system, but I'd just be curious, of uniquely, we always talk about some higher education, but community college is such an important, unique aspect of it. I'd love to hear kind of like your take on that.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, I think some folks may be questioning the legitimacy of community colleges in terms of what's the return on investment, right? Especially if they don't do their research. They're going to say, well, why am I going to go here? I get, I'm getting $20 at, at a Taco Bell or Burger King, you know, when that was rising. And, but that's a, that's, that's a job, not a career, right? At some point you're going to get tired of it. You're going to leave and it doesn't provide the medical benefits that you and your family might need, et cetera. And community colleges will provide you that pathway at a very low cost. At California Community Colleges, we're one of the cheapest in the nation. We're still at $46 a unit. There's a lot of financial aid, whether it's federal or state. So we provide a tremendous opportunity in terms of access and support for students because we're local as well. And I will say some of the challenges are that the way we're structured doesn't allow us to pivot as fast as technology is shifting specifically with AI. Imagine a system, you know, with 116 colleges, some can move, you know, faster than others. But when the state of California is in general, this is my perspective coming from Washington to California is far more regulated. And so there's a lot of I's you need to dot a lot of T's you need to cross excessively that to move and adjust is challenging. And especially with AI, how are we going to adjust to that? Whether it's grading our students, whether it's the use of it on campus. I've been tinkering a little bit with some messages and it comes out with some good stuff that I would have probably wrote anyways, but just like this. And then I go in there and then you personalize it to your voice. And what does that do for us? Does it make me more efficient? Now can I focus on some other things? Et cetera. And I just think some of the challenges too or, you know, the mental health of our students. COVID really did have an impact on our students' mental health, whether they were used to not being around other students and then came out of it. And then social media, the amount of pressure that goes in. You know, we grew up with fast food issues. You know, when I would go to McDonald's, I'm like, why is my food not here? And then you go to a restaurant and you're always kind of wanting to go fast. But now imagine that accelerated at a very young age for kids to be liked on social media and the expectation to be liked, the expectation to have followers. I can't even imagine that and what it does to mental health if you don't have that or whatever status that's evolving. And so we have that happening with our students is that they come in with a lot of mental health challenges and we need to develop a better infrastructure in community colleges or in our communities to support the needs of our students.

Joe Sallustio: You're right. It can be like a drug social media. You want more of it when you have it when you don't have the attention, you want more of it. It's really dangerous, particularly as you put phones in the hands of young kids who become adults. It's really hard to pull attention back on things that are more important, which is a huge issue for community college presidents like yourself, how and, you know, we want to close this episode, give you an open mic. Tell us anything else you want to say about Madera and what you see for the future of higher education.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, and for us, you know, we have an opportunity to continue to build out our programming to fit the needs of our students. And we've started athletics. We started our women's soccer team this past fall, our first ever athletic team. They did us proud. They did really well. I'm so excited to grow that we're moving into cross country as well, men's and women's in the fall. And it's just added another life and energy to our campus. So, for us to see it from a center, not having any athletics to now seeing some athletes on our campus, it just, it has changed the atmosphere. I remember one day during the summer, I was walking by and then all of a sudden I'm hearing, you know, some girls kicking the ball around and I'm like, Hey, what's going on over there? And I'm like, it was different. And I went out there and said hello to them. It's just beautiful to see how our campus has transformed for the betterment for our students and more importantly for the broader community that we serve. 

We're also working on a Wi-Fi parking lot project. So if students, you know, don't have a quiet space at home during the weekends or just want to come and do some work in their car or just relax, they're going to have the opportunity to do that. We're hoping to get that done by fall semester just to have different spaces because we're becoming predominantly online. Students are preferring that for convenience, not necessarily for preference, right? If they have kids, they have jobs, now they can, or they don't have a car, they don't have to worry about that. They can access us in different ways. 

But I do also think, you know, the future as I talked a little bit is, how are we gonna continue to sell our value proposition to individuals as we move forward? And how are we going to adjust to that demand that AI is kind of imposing on us? How are we going to pivot? How are we going to adjust? Because in five years, you know, technology is moving at an exponential pace. Can we keep up with it? I think that's something that we need to grapple with not only in the state of California, but I think in the nation for community colleges and probably universities as well. What does the world of work look like in five to 10 years?

Joe Sallustio: What do you think, Douglas? Good conversation. This is fantastic. I'm really excited to have been a part of the conversation and sincerely appreciate the time. He's Douglas Carlson. He is the head of partnerships at Lead Squared. Douglas, we hope you have a good weekend because we're doing this on a Friday. We'll all go get some mental health. Maybe a few video games in my case, PS5 for anybody. I mean, you know, nerd out. Probably take my wife to dinner to even things out, by the way. And ladies and gentlemen, our guest, he's your guest. He is Dr. Angel Reyna. He is the president of Madera Community College. Angel has been an honor to have you on the podcast. And we're glad that we figured things out and made it happen.

Dr. Angel Reyna: Yeah, it's been my pleasure, Joe and Douglas. Pleasure to meet you both. And thank you for the great conversation. I really enjoyed it.

Joe Sallustio: Ladies and gentlemen, you've just ed-uped.